American Automobile Association Says Owning An EV Costs More Than Having An ICE Car

Greaser · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

American Automobile Association Says Owning An EV Costs More Than Having An ICE Car

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

It is called "social engineering" and it is almost complete.

The internal combustion engine has been the dominant powerplant because of many variables. Whenever a government gets involved in forcing choices on you then natural market forces cease. Cars burn cleaner than ever before, but that is not enough for these crazed mavens that are going to "save the earth"

It is like the brilliant minds that decided that LED traffic lights are going to "save the world" with the power savings. Except the LEDs don't produce enough heat to melt ice from the traffic lights so they have to install heaters to melt the ice. Net result is zero benefit, even more cost & mindless reworking to achieve what we already had. I guess if one were a politician & had to justify one's existence one would probably fall into the same "do anything to look busy" attitude.

Also, why the hell are we pushing so hard to electrify vehicles? Ontario's hydro rates are the highest in North America and there are always more demands on the grid as it is. Do we need to overload the grid more? A little tailpipe emissions that disperse & are absorbed by plants, vs. nuclear waste with a half-life of 70 years or more. We need more slogans and less critical thinking, NOT.

Even with the government-induced carbon taxes that are going to save the world disbelief by making gas so expensive, even so an EV makes sense in only some cases. I don't hate EVs, I hate being practically forced by powerful idiots who are not engineers into doing what they think is right for the peons. The great hoodwink is being foisted on the public as we speak, but they are so good at propaganda that many people believe the nonsense.

-- Edited by CdnGMfan on Sunday 26th of January 2020 02:39:43 PM

Greaser · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

CdnGMfan wrote:
It is called "social engineering" and it is almost complete.

When this transition is truly complete,and the electrification on our lives becomes the norm, has anyone thought about

what will happen when for some reason the electricity we will be so depended upon suddenly disappears.

What will happen when the big blackout occurs, and gas and oil are no longer available.

There will be no heat or lights in your electrical heated houses, no EV's operating, no cell phones charged,no subway trains running,

tvs and radio stations will stop operating. Back-up battery sources will gradually stop working.

Hospitals, schools businesses...everything will grind to a halt.

You won't even be able to operate the water coming out of your motion operated tap or flush your sensor operated toilet.

Everything will stop. All it will take is one natural disaster to a electrical source to stop a city or province from functioning.

How much will solar and wind power help a city the size of Toronto, or a province like Ontario?

How realistic is this possibility? We know that Mother Nature is unpredictable, so the possibility is there.

Not a pleasant thought,but there is another source for disaster,ask North Korea's Kim Jong-un or Iran's Hassan Rouhani

where they would send a missile to cripple North America?

We see brown outs right now in cold winters,and in hot summers.....there will have to be more electricity generated to accommodate all

these new EVs and electrical heated homes.........it won't be free. Self independence will be lost and government control of your life will really take over.

What a foolishly planned future the present generation and today's political leaders are wishing for.

-G

Prefectca · Poncho Master!

I watched a news item on CBC about the popularity of electric cars. The owners talked about the cost saving like not buying gas very little maintenance and so on. It reminded me of the late 70s with propane powered vehicles. Cheaper fuel, spark plugs last three times longer, fewer oil changes etc. Then the government put road tax on propane. The propane vehicles disappeared quickly and are a rare site today. The average car owner contributes over $2000 a year in fuel taxes. I can see electric cars being taxed on mileage driven, payable probably when your plates are renewed.

unruhjonny · Guru

CdnGMfan wrote:
It is called "social engineering" and it is almost complete.
... The great hoodwink is being foisted on the public as we speak, but they are so good at propaganda that many people believe the nonsense.

I have long held what I'd wager to be an unpopular opinion.
Under National Socialism, 'propaganda' and media manipulation was first used;
As much as western civilization and media has done to demonize everything about 1930's Germany (including the continual white-washing over any good which may have happened), everyone seems to be doing today what they were doing then in regaurds to media manipulation - even our prime minister last year before starting the campaign trail did this - he invited media persons who were seen as "friendly to my angle" to sign an agreement which was essentially (as I understood it) a gag order to any possibility of slanderous reports against him, which would in turn grant them exclusive access to his press conferences ect.

The real travesty is that unfortunately most do not realize that what is going on with our media right now is probably more wide spread of a media manipulation than what was seen under National Socialist rule.

I love this country;
I appreciate the freedoms that daily we take for granted;
I will be duped into forgetting our collective past.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Greaser wrote:
CdnGMfan wrote:
It is called "social engineering" and it is almost complete.

When this transition is truly complete,and the electrification on our lives becomes the norm, has anyone thought about
what will happen when for some reason the electricity we will be so depended upon suddenly disappears.
What will happen when the big blackout occurs, and gas and oil are no longer available.
There will be no heat or lights in your electrical heated houses, no EV's operating, no cell phones charged,no subway trains running,
tvs and radio stations will stop operating. Back-up battery sources will gradually stop working.
Hospitals, schools businesses...everything will grind to a halt.
You won't even be able to operate the water coming out of your motion operated tap or flush your sensor operated toilet.
Everything will stop. All it will take is one natural disaster to a electrical source to stop a city or province from functioning.
How much will solar and wind power help a city the size of Toronto, or a province like Ontario?
How realistic is this possibility? We know that Mother Nature is unpredictable, so the possibility is there.
Not a pleasant thought,but there is another source for disaster,ask North Korea's Kim Jong-un or Iran's Hassan Rouhani
where they would send a missile to cripple North America?
We see brown outs right now in cold winters,and in hot summers.....there will have to be more electricity generated to accommodate all
these new EVs and electrical heated homes.........it won't be free. Self independence will be lost and government control of your life will really take over.
What a foolishly planned future the present generation and today's political leaders are wishing for.
-G

Actually, we will already be screwed over in our current state if electricity stops.

- Service stations do not operate without electricity, so therefore nobody gets gas anyhow.

- All, and I mean all, of our major systems controlling everything are computer controlled. No electricity, no computers, everything grinds to a halt.

- Oil furnaces require electricity to operate (think thermostats, etc.)

So... unless you heat your home by burning wood, and are handy with an axe, you are done like a dinner if the electricity goes out. I suppose you could always convert to solar or wind power, or hook up an exercise bike to a generator...

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

unruhjonny wrote:
CdnGMfan wrote:
It is called "social engineering" and it is almost complete.
... The great hoodwink is being foisted on the public as we speak, but they are so good at propaganda that many people believe the nonsense.
I have long held what I'd wager to be an unpopular opinion.
Under National Socialism, 'propaganda' and media manipulation was first used;
As much as western civilization and media has done to demonize everything about 1930's Germany (including the continual white-washing over any good which may have happened), everyone seems to be doing today what they were doing then in regaurds to media manipulation - even our prime minister last year before starting the campaign trail did this - he invited media persons who were seen as "friendly to my angle" to sign an agreement which was essentially (as I understood it) a gag order to any possibility of slanderous reports against him, which would in turn grant them exclusive access to his press conferences ect.

The real travesty is that unfortunately most do not realize that what is going on with our media right now is probably more wide spread of a media manipulation than what was seen under National Socialist rule.

I love this country;
I appreciate the freedoms that daily we take for granted;
I will be duped into forgetting our collective past.

Sorry man, I've read up a fair amount of WWII history, and have yet to find anything "good" about Nazi Germany. Hitler was able to coerce the German people into following his beliefs by the same methods being used by some of the world "leaders" today (reference the orange man to the south of us).

Canada is not a socialist country... don't know where you're getting that, but I'm going to cut it right there as we are becoming dangerously close to talking politics, which is verboten on this board.

The electric car debate is being pushed by environmental groups, but I don't think anybody has done a clear 'factory to junkyard' analysis on them - at least not that I've seen. And, technology is in a continual state of development, so what was thought even five years ago is outdated today. It will continue to improve.

Don't get me wrong, I've spent my entire life being an ICE enthusiast. I will mourn them as much as any other gearhead when (if) they are gone, but the only thing constant in life is change, and sometimes you have to accept it and move on.

Just my 2¢, no offense intended.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

I really don't care if future cars are electric. I really don't think there is some sort of an "agenda" by the governments to get us driving electric cars.
The right say greenies and governments are forcing us to get rid of ICE vehicles and drive electric.
The left says big oil is forcing us to stay with the status quo.

It's really tiring hearing the conspiracy theories from both sides. It's human nature to be "afraid" of new technologies. Personally I'll drive whatever is cheapest to own and so that means whether I like it or not I'l be driving an ICE car for several more years as there's nothing really cheaper than the $800 Honda I currently drive.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I too don't listen to the conspiracy theories - most of those are driven by some kind of agenda. To expand on what I was saying above, the environmental groups are believing that electric cars are better for the environment and are the best bet (other than abandoning personal vehicles altogether and having all of us ride bicycles) to combat climate change. Thus they are being pushed by these groups as they are seen as the best option compared to ICE vehicles - it's not seen as an agenda, but just trying to improve the outlook for our planet and its people.

My thoughts are that it's not clear whether electric vehicles are better overall, taking into account manufacturing, and the use of rare elements in the batteries, etc. Also, there are losses in transmitting energy through power lines, so all the energy used to create the electricity doesn't go directly to powering the vehicle.

I suspect that this will be a wash overall, and the benefits of having vehicles powered by electricity, some of which will be produced by 'green' methods, and some of it produced by combustion (but theoretically produced with finer controls on the pollution created during combustion vs hundreds of thousands of individual vehicles in various states of tune, running off of fuel often produced in other parts of the world) will outweigh the negatives.

Having driven some hybrid-electric vehicles and experiencing the low end torque that is typical of electric motors, I have to say that it won't be all that bad, especially as the technology continues to improve into the future.

Again, just my 2¢...

ABC123 · Uber Guru

They say it will never happen again.

2003 Blackout,

10 million people in Ontario, and 45 million people in eight U.S. states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003

But, they said that before.

1965 Blackout,

Over 30 million people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_1965

There was a lot of kids in my class that were born 9 months after the 1965 blackout biggrin

When I saw "ICE" all I could think of is the truck 427carl helped build !

ice truck2.png

-- Edited by ABC123 on Monday 27th of January 2020 02:43:01 PM

long stroke · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Canadian Poncho wrote:
I really don't care if future cars are electric. I really don't think there is some sort of an "agenda" by the governments to get us driving electric cars.
The right say greenies and governments are forcing us to get rid of ICE vehicles and drive electric.
The left says big oil is forcing us to stay with the status quo.

It's really tiring hearing the conspiracy theories from both sides. It's human nature to be "afraid" of new technologies. Personally I'll drive whatever is cheapest to own and so that means whether I like it or not I'l be driving an ICE car for several more years as there's nothing really cheaper than the $800 Honda I currently drive.

Todd, you have made the most sense of all and i am in complete agreement with all your above statements. The internal combustion engine is here to stay and it is not being replaced by anything. The electric car leaves a far greater carbon footprint than people want to admit. The electric car carbon foot print is something "Greenies" want to keep hidden under the rug. The only one thing that is for sure, is that we will continue to be taxed to death for the privilege of driving our internal combustion vehicles. Cheers.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

long stroke wrote:
The electric car leaves a far greater carbon footprint than people want to admit.

Sounds like you have access to the data that I'm looking for, George. Can you provide a link to a source for that data? I'd be interested in reading it if possible.

I suspect you're right, that IC vehicles will be around longer than people think they will, but I do think their days are numbered. To continue to get IC engines to hit the emissions and mileage targets that continue to increase, they will have to become more expensive and complex, to the point that it won't make sense to keep them around.

Not that I'm a big proponent of electric cars - but when you think of how much fewer systems and moving parts will be required to run them, they do seem attractive from a maintenance point of view. Battery technology is really the only thing holding them back IMHO (and infrastructure... ha ha).