1976 Grand Lemans on Facebook marketplace

Prefectca · Poncho Master!

1976 Grand Lemans on Facebook marketplace

Pontiacanada · A Poncho Legend!

Parked in the right environment ... not.

mike667 · Poncho Master!

Its a 4 door too. How much do you think he thinks he going to get? Did he put it a price on it yet?
If decent price Ill take it for the 455...

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

He can believe what ever he likes but no 455 in 76 LeMans. If its blue and a Canadian its a 400.

A 455 4 door Grand LeMans would have been cool though. In 1976 a Grand LeMans was a nice car, a cross between a Luxury LeMans and a Grand Am. We had one a two door in similar colour to this one.

LeMans 76.jpg

mike667 · Poncho Master!

Wasnt the 455 an option though?

1976lemans.blogspot.com/p/1976_20.html

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

mike667 wrote:
Wasnt the 455 an option though?

1976lemans.blogspot.com/p/1976_20.html

No it was not.

norontcan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

73SC wrote:
mike667 wrote:
Wasnt the 455 an option though?

1976lemans.blogspot.com/p/1976_20.html

No it was not.

Respectfully submit this from www.automobile-catalog.com

1976

Pontiac Grand Le Mans 4-Door Hardtop Sedan 250-1 Six Turbo Hydra-Matic

Grand Le Mans Sedan model for North America (up to September), 4-door sedan with automatic 3-speed and 4093 cm3 / 82 kW (110 hp / 112 PS);

1976

Pontiac Grand Le Mans 4-Door Hardtop Sedan 260-2 V8 5-speed

Grand Le Mans Sedan model for North America (up to September), 4-door sedan with manual 5-speed and 4269 cm3 / 82 kW (110 hp / 112 PS);

1976

Pontiac Grand Le Mans 4-Door Hardtop Sedan 260-2 V8 Turbo Hydra-Matic

Grand Le Mans Sedan model for North America (up to September), 4-door sedan with automatic 3-speed and 4269 cm3 / 82 kW (110 hp / 112 PS);

1976

Pontiac Grand Le Mans 4-Door Hardtop Sedan 350-2 V8 Turbo Hydra-Matic

Grand Le Mans Sedan model for North America (up to September), 4-door sedan with automatic 3-speed and 5802 cm3 / 119.5 kW (160 hp / 163 PS);

1976

Pontiac Grand Le Mans 4-Door Hardtop Sedan 350-4 V8 Turbo Hydra-Matic

Grand Le Mans Sedan model for North America California (U.S.) (up to September), 4-door sedan with automatic 3-speed and 5802 cm3 / 123 kW (165 hp / 167 PS);

1976

Pontiac Grand Le Mans 4-Door Hardtop Sedan 400-2 V8 Turbo Hydra-Matic

Grand Le Mans Sedan model for North America (up to September), 4-door sedan with automatic 3-speed and 6558 cm3 / 126.5 kW (170 hp / 172 PS);

1976

Pontiac Grand Le Mans 4-Door Hardtop Sedan 400-4 V8 Turbo Hydra-Matic

Grand Le Mans Sedan model for North America (up to September), 4-door sedan with automatic 3-speed and 6558 cm3 / 138 kW (185 hp / 188 PS);

1976

Pontiac Grand Le Mans 4-Door Hardtop Sedan 455-4 V8 Turbo Hydra-Matic

Grand Le Mans Sedan model for North America (up to September), 4-door sedan with automatic 3-speed and 7469 cm3 / 149 kW (200 hp / 203 PS);

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

And with equal respect , as I said, if its blue and a Canadian its a 400 no question on that. Just to be sure here's the French Canadian brochure engine chart for 1976. The seller did say its an Alberta Car afterall.

The 455 was available in the wagons.

norontcan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

We'll have to ask for the serial number to see if the 5th digit is a R = 400 2bc, S = 400 4bc or W = 455
Seller says " came from Alberta back in the day " which, I guess, implies but isn't limited to it being a Canadian car. Could well be an American import especially if it had the biggest engine possible in 1976.
Seventh digit would indicate manufacturing plant.
Ad doesn't mention engine colour so that remains an unknown.

Until the above is addressed it remains that it " could be " a 455

-- Edited by norontcan on Wednesday 29th of April 2020 09:28:01 PM

-- Edited by norontcan on Wednesday 29th of April 2020 09:29:52 PM

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

I'll even post the Canadian 1975 brochure and 1977 brochure :

If that car posted is a 455 Canadian car and its factory I'm interested.

n_1975 Pontiac LeMans (Cdn)-16.jpg

n_1977 Pontiac Lemans (Cdn)-10-11.jpg

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Grind the crank, early 350 or 400 heads with big valves/smaller chambers/good ports , RA III or the early HO cam (same specs as an SD455), early intake or aftermarket intake and it's no longer an anchor!

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

While we wait for the VIN on the subject car lets go over what engines were being offered in the other A body's Coupes and Sedans in 1976:

Chevelle: 250, 305, 350, 400.

Regal: 231, 350

Cutlass: 250, 260, 350, 403

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

I notice the 455 was available on Grand Am. Anyone ever see one so equipped?

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Canadian Poncho wrote:
I notice the 455 was available on Grand Am. Anyone ever see one so equipped?

Yes I have seen a 1975 so equipped. On the heels of the fuel crisis they sold like cardboard though.

pontorquer · Poncho Master!

Todd, Here is one :

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/markham-york-region/1975-pontiac-grand-am/1492884466

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

My boss at the the time had one, (455 Grand-Am) he was the accounting manager and I was a junior accountant. It was brown with-out a NASA hood with parchment interior and vinyl roof, in a sport coupe body style, one of the few sport coupes with vinyl top that the louvers actually matched the roof, indicating a factory option as opposed to dealer installed. I loved it. I almost cried the day he showed up with a 1980 Toronado 307. It was a beautiful car too Black and silver two tone with wire wheels, but just not the same as the Grand Am to me. The "old" Grand Am was relegated to his wife as the family's second car.

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

There was a difference between the U.S. & Canadian powertrain choices on the Le Mans over the years. I never did get the 1976 brochure, surprisingly, but I know they had significant differences. I don't know, did the Canadian 1976 Le Mans have the same offerings as the 76 Chevelle? (e.g. 250, 305, 350, 400) I know the 260 Olds & 455 Pontiac weren't offered on the Canadian 76 Le Mans (as I think they were in the U.S.) In 1975 the 455 was limited to the Grand Am. Even the wagons came only with 400's both in 2 & 4-barrel that year. I would believe it if the 455 quietly returned for 1976, as some buyers were starting to return to larger cars and engines after a year or 2 of going stingy. Oldsmobile had the 455 in the 1976 Cutlass although they didn't say anything about it at all in the brochure, it was seemingly all about the 260. This was before the Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards were enacted starting with the 78s.

1977 had vast differences between Canadian & U.S Le Mans engines, for instance in Canada we had a choice of 250 Chevy L6, 305 2-barrel Chevy and 350 4-barrel Chevy. In the U.S. they had 231 Buick V6, 301 Pontiac V8, 350 4-barrel (Pontiac? or Olds for California & high altitude), Pontiac 400 4-barrel (Olds 403 for California & high altitude). The wagons in Canada were coming in from the U.S. and had 301, 350 & 400 power (all Pontiac presumably). GM in 1977 had engines swapped from division to division; it even lead to a class action lawsuit from disgruntled Oldsmobile Delta 88 buyers who expected Olds power instead of Chevy 350 power (the 98's used Olds 350 & 403 power). After that, GM took great pains to explain in print that GM cars use engines from various GM divisions (see attachment. I apologize for the cat hair but my cat was sitting on the scanner during the scan.)

This stuff started in 1975 When Venturas ran Buick 350s, and you could get a 400 Pontiac in your big Olds 98 as an economy option over the standard 455 Olds.

Ahem, that 76 Grand Le Mans sedan would make a great driver with it's RTS suspension & comfy seating. It would be worth getting if it is rust-free, but if not, run Forest, run! Actually if it in fact is a 455 then it will come with the stronger 8.75" rear (used in all wagons plus 350 / 455 Cutlass).

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Initial intel on subject car is that its sporting an "orange" block and therefore would be a small block BUT once I get VIN we will know.

One owner, one family car though.

Cam's post sums up the situation as I know it as well, he's just got more time to write it up, I'm working 12 hour days since I laid off 139 staff on April 1st!. I'm on my 15 minute lunch break now.

I will say that no question a 455 was optional in the Police Enforcer in 1976 and 1977 BUT I seriously doubt it was offered to the public in a Grand LeMans even in the USA. The third party US literature posted is therefore technically correct but in reality probably not. I think our Poncho friends state side would know, I may reach out to the 73-77 LeMans guru in New York to see what he says.

PS: Cam the Chevelle got 400 small block, LeMans got 400 Pontiac

-- Edited by 73SC on Friday 1st of May 2020 12:00:58 PM

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Thanks for the info Ray. I figured you would have the lowdown

Boy, this pandemic situation is surely feast-or-famine. Hang in there and stay safe!

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

In the interest of Transparency, Integrity and Friendship I did contact the POCI Technical Advisor for the 1973-77 LeMans. He is the expert and his own collection includes a 1973 4 speed GTO, a 1977 Can Am and a 1977 LeMans Enforcer 455 Sheriff Buford T. Justice recreation.

There is no dispute on an Oshawa built car, no 455 in 1976. However the 455 "was available" in the Grand LeMans in the USA. he followed that up quickly BUT that would be a rare one.

So the way I see it I've heard Unicorns existed but no one ever saw one.

After my personal telephone call with the owner of the Facebook car I am satisfied that it is not a 455 and likely not even a 400 Pontiac. I was told the engine is orange which makes it most certainly an Oshawa car. I suppose there is another unlikely scenario that it is a 400 small block but then that would be as rare as the 455 is down south since to my knowledge only the Chevelle and more specifically the Laguna got that engine on the production line.

I asked for the VIN, so we wait. Nice fella, was grandfather's car and now falls in his hands.

PS: Tons of carpetbaggers contacting him for the engine but he won't part it and its not a 455.

-- Edited by 73SC on Saturday 2nd of May 2020 12:42:29 AM

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Good for you, Ray. I'm sure you will be able to get to the bottom of this, and maybe even help him find a new caretaker for his grandfather's car.

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Regarding the 455, I just found reference to the 455 in the 1976 U.S. brochure:

The 455 was offered! A casual reading might make you think that the 400 was available with a 5-speed. Nope, all V8s were automatic only, except for the Oldsmobile 260 V8 which offered a Warner T-50 (the humble 260 was pushing the torque limit of that wimpy transmission that was nothing compared to the later, stronger T-5).

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

So in summary, seller said he had an Alberta 1976 Grand LeMans with a 455.

Big Ray said, no way Canadian built LeMans did not offer 455, 400 was tops. "If it's blue and a Canadian it's a 400"

a few members refute this and show USA documents as proof.

Big Ray stands ground and calls Seller, who immediately said it's not 455 but could be a 400 and says it's an orange block. This is strong evidence of an Oshawa car.

Big Ray asks for VIN and reiterates, "if it's blue and a Canadian it's a 400" . We wait for VIN.

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I reread my post and realized that with the exclamation point it may have been interpreted as me getting riled-up. Oops, not what I meant to do.

In no way did I mean to challenge you Ray. I value you and your knowledge, we all do. The exclamation point was more of a Eureka moment! I have been looking for documentation and evidence to prove or disprove the 1976 Le Mans 455 theory for years actually. I got a little giddy when I found it. I am weird that way

Sorry for the derail.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Not at all Cam, seems we lost track of the original point, and I will also say for a car that's just around the corner it sure is taking a long time to get the VIN..........

Interesting though how the US Market and Canadian Market brochure use the same artwork predominantly, just with Canadian backdrops and the fact that the 400 is the largest engine.

1976-Pontiac-Lemans-Sales-Brochure-Origi