True but I don't think the 267 was being built yet in 1978 was it? I think it only came around 1980 or 1981.

4SPEED427 wrote:

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I love the car except for the absolute worst choice they could possibly have made for the engine, that gutless pig 301.

I take that back, second worst. The worst would have been a 260 Olds engine. That would be even slower.

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Have you ever driven a stone stock 301/4bbl?
Then have you driven a 305/4bbl from the same model year?

I'd dare say that I'd rather the 301 over the 305 any day of the week - and the manual transmission makes that car pretty darn cool to me.

You have to look at it in respect to what was going on;
GM franchises were trying to retain a degree of brand identity in an world of ever increasing corporate identity - and it seemed to me that Pontiac was making genuine good effort... even if I didn't always agree with the styling.
The 301, for what it was in my opinion wasn't that bad.

I had a 1980 Monte Carlo 305/4bbl-auto, and it was fine for what it was,I actually liked that car enough, that I flirted with the idea of selling my Firebird to keep the Monte Carlo.
I later also had a 267/2bbl car 1981(?) Malibu sedan, again, a great driving car, as long as you were not in any race, but that small block was just so gutless!

Now, bias aside, I didn't generally care for period Pontiac front end and interior styling;
I preferred the Monte Carlo/Malibu dash to the Grand Prix/Grand Am/Lemans.
I also prefered the cleaner/simpler stylings of many Chevs at the same time
But since there is an exception to every rule, I need to take pause to say that there's something about the 1978-1979 Grand Prix, that I just loved - a high school friend's neighbour had a super mint '78 GP that I loved.
I never saw it drive before I graduated (after which it sold to my friends cousin), but man oh man...

I am not a 301 4bbl hater either. My 80 Grand Prix with that engine was a very quick car and seemed like unlimited top end. Burned rubber and squealed like a stuck pig as opposed to being pig.

4SPEED427 wrote:

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unruhjonny wrote:

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4SPEED427 wrote:

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I love the car except for the absolute worst choice they could possibly have made for the engine, that gutless pig 301.

I take that back, second worst. The worst would have been a 260 Olds engine. That would be even slower.

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Have you ever driven a stone stock 301/4bbl?

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 When I worked at the Pontiac dealership in from 1980-1985 we sold a couple. My favourite was the one a young lady bought, a blue 1980 Grand Am 301. I loved that car but the opportunity to drive it was a real letdown when I found out how sucked out it was. An even bigger disappointment was the 301 Turbo Formula we sold (a rare car I now realize). A 305 4 barrel Camaro/Firebird could run circles around that turbo 'Bird.

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no offence, but it sounds like your dealership didn't know how to do pre-puchase prep.

The 301T should murder a 305/4bbl - assuming it was properly setup;
I was speaking a number of years ago with another guy who hated the 301t, he said "that car couldn't spin it's tires in the rain!", but I have come to understand that these were often shipped in a terrible state of tune, and if a dealer had a tech who knew what he was doing, the car was a totally different animal.
I have driven some 301T cars, and can attest to them being quicker than a same year 305/4bbl... then again, that had something to do with the roughly 50hp deficit that the 305 had.

Now, there was (depending on the model) either a lower price option or a credit option version of the 301/4bbl which had a little less horsepower than the 305 - I can't off hand tell you how to identify one from the other.

1980 301T = 210hp

1980 "W72" 301/4bbl = 155hp

1980 "LG4" 305/4bbl = 150hp

1980 "L37" 301/4bbl = 140hp

I do believe that each engine was more or less teamed with specific differential gearing, so the engine option chosen at that time more or less dictated the gearing you received.

I looked at the Grand Am/Lemans page, and it looks like the 301-L37 could have come with 2.14:1 or 2.41:1 gearing - while the same car with a 305 would have had 2.29:1 or 2.73:1 gearing!
That same car could have had a 265/2bbl iirc (because I cannot find a horsepower rating for that engine right now) it had something like 120hp, and according to the same brochure, it only came with 2.29:1 gearing. Yuck.

unruhjonny wrote:

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no offence, but it sounds like your dealership didn't know how to do pre-puchase prep.

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 LOL.....no further discussion from me on this topic, I've been told!

4SPEED427 wrote:

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unruhjonny wrote:

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no offence, but it sounds like your dealership didn't know how to do pre-puchase prep.

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 LOL.....no further discussion from me on this topic, I've been told!

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oh, come on.
I have been nearly scolded on how terrible some dealers were at not setting up cars properly in this time frame for their clients.
The first hand accounts, and senior GM techs stories all seem to support this.

Canadian Poncho wrote:

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PDI's never paid much (flat rate) so it's not surprising they wouldn't bother to set up a Turbo 301.

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 At the F**d dealership I used to work at at the age of 17, they used to just rush through new vehicle PDIs. Mostly just attach some stuff and put on hubcaps.

Canadian Poncho wrote:

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I seem to recall .3 of the flat rate was set aside to cover the cleanup for delivery. I think the average the tech got was .7 (42 minutes) if there weren't any accessories to put on (like side steps on a truck).
I believe the labour operation code was Z7000? That's going back 25 or so years though lol

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 I guess I was the .3 I was the one that did the quick & dirty cleanup.

Once in a while I'd put pin-striping on a new vehicle, which I bought at Crappy Tire across the road for 4 bucks, and the customer was charged over a hundred dollars. Ah, 1977.