Now, This is Rare

ABC123 · Uber Guru

Now, This is Rare

LT1Caddy · Poncho Master!

Would that be original colour combo interior? Seems a little odd, cream colour seat with blue dash/door panels? I'm no expert....

Gillis · Addicted!

Sweet car but Good lord that is painful to read

oshawacliff · Poncho Master!

Gillis wrote:
Sweet car but Good lord that is painful to read

All caps is SHOUTING! in text language.

Offensive yes.

unruhjonny · Guru

Gillis wrote:
Sweet car but Good lord that is painful to read

Yes, it seems to have been pasted without the punctuation.

I think this is a cool car!!

I went to the ad, to have a closer look too.

from the ad (with some spelling and grammar corrections; but still all caps!);

I AM PUTTING UP A RARE CAR ONLY 2 CAR'S;
THIS IS A 1971 LEMANS WHICH WAS BUILD IN OSHAWA WITH GTO DRIVE LINE AND SUSPENSION.

I AM THE FOURTH OWNER OF IT, AND WAS ABLE TO CHAT WITH ALL THE PRIOR OWNERS INCLUDING THE ORIGINAL.

THE ORIGINAL OWNER SAID THE SALESMAN ASKED HIM IF HE WANTED A GTO AND HE SAID "NO, ALL MY FRIENDS HAVE ONE, AND I WANT TO BE DIFFERENT" - SO THAT'S WHY HE ORDERED THIS CAR THE WAY HE DID!
THAT'S WHAT MAKE'S IT A UNIQUE CAR!!

I TOOK THE ORIGINAL OWNER OF THIS CAR FOR RIDE IN IT THIS PAST SUMMER.

THE CAR COME'S WITH G.M. PAPER WORK TO SHOW ONLY 2 BUILT IN CANADA.
THIS CAR NEEDS TO GO TO SOME ONE THAT CAN UNDERSTAND THE VALUE OF IT.

HERE ARE THE OPTION'S THIS CAR CAME WITH:
- WK 400 MOTOR # MATCHING STILL HAS 4SPD CARB
- ORIGINAL M22 ROCK CRUSHER TRANNY WITH SHIFTER AND KNOB
- 12 BOLT 331 GEAR'S THAT WERE ORDERED AS WELL
- NO POWER STEERING (HE JUST WANTED POWER, NO LAGGING ON THE MOTOR)
- POWER DISC BRAKE'S
- AM RADIO (THAT STILL WORK'S FINE!!)
- MOST INTERIOR IS STILL ORIGINAL AND SHOWS VERY WELL

I UP GRADED THE RIM'S AND TIRE'S 15X7 FRONT REAR'S 15X8 WITH NEW RUBBER THIS YEAR!!

THIS CAR WAS FULLY RESTORATION IN 2002 AND SINCE THEN ONLY 3900.0 MILES ARE ON IT.
THIS CAR STILL LOOK LIKE IT WAS JUST RESTORED.
I HAVE THE PROTECT-O-PLATE AND SALE'S BROCHURE FOR THE CAR.
I AM SURE I AM LEAVING STUFF OUT BUT FEEL FREE TO CALL ME ONLY AS I DON'T ANSWER EMAIL;
I AM NOT ON COMPUTER VERY OFTEN
MY CELL 416 706 4442
ASKING PRICE 52900.00
THIS IS FALL PRICING AND WILL GO UP IN SPRING!!!
MAY TRADE FOR 68-69 CHEVELLE SS PLUS AD CASH!!!!

I have heard it said that the only way to make money on a restoration, is to do it for someone else - otherwise restoring a car, and trying to flip it is generally not a financially beneficial situation...
I would think that $53k would generally buy alot of car, not just a 8.6:1 compression 400 car with a factory rating of 300hp (230net iirc).

But all that said, I'd sure love to have that car in my garage!!

My guess as to what makes it 1:2 is the following combination of factors:
1) Oshaw built
2) optional 400/4bbl
3) optional close ratio four speed

I have some 1972 accessorizers here, and they should give a good idea of what options would have costed (these are American market printings);

HD 3 speed transmission (incl on GTO or GT options); $82
Four speed wide ratio transmission (incl with WW4); $190
Four speed close ratio transmission wo/WW4; $231
Four speed close ratio transmission w/WW4; $41

So in 1972 dollars the M22 was $41 MORE than an M20 - and with 3.31:1 gearing, I'd bet good money that an M20 equipped car would have been the easier to drive, and in the streetlight races, a faster car.
Not only that, but according to inflation calculators, that $41 difference in 1972 dollar is roughly $300 in today's money.

unruhjonny · Guru

I also find that gear set curious;
It seems that GM did things in two year cycles, with only minor differences between year 1 & 2;
The 1972 literature I have here shows the standard gearing for a Lemans as being 3.23:1 - hardly the type of gearing you would want with an M22, with 3.55:1 gearing mentioned before the 'G92' economy axle, and 'G95' performance axle options.

I would bet some of you know drive train specifics for Canadian built cars a whole lot better than me.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I see it has a 12 bolt which doesn't surprise me. I don't know my Lemans/GTO's of that era very well but I'm thinking that will be unique to Canada.

With that said I'd be betting on either 3.31 or 3.55 gears with that M22.

Prefectca · Poncho Master!

I once owned a 1970 Tempest two door sedan. It had a 250 Chevy six with a three speed on the column. I think that the rear window defroster and the am radio were the only options. It was probably rare also. I should have kept it.

Paul

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Was the 300hp 400 the top engine for the Lemans this year? Wasn't the 455 available?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Yes, I think a regular 455 as well as an HO were available, if memory is correct.

unruhjonny · Guru

this is correct.
I believe that the 455 (D-port) was only available with an automatic, and both 455's had availability conditional on other options.

I really need to buy the Canadian sales literature - all I have so far is American stuff.

-- Edited by unruhjonny on Thursday 29th of September 2022 09:17:17 AM

ABC123 · Uber Guru

Are we sure the 455s were used in Oshawa ?

My Olds friend is pretty sure that all Candian bulit cars had a very limited choice of motors.

NOS · Poncho Master!

yes, it would appear that 'pearl white' or 'parchement were 1971 interior colours

Dale

unruhjonny · Guru

I am certain I have heard of an Oshawa built 1970 455 Judge;
All the Pontiac "American big blocks" (as Canadian's seemed to often refer them) were uncommon for an Oshawa built car;
I have understood that often a Canadian order for a Pontiac powered car, the car was built state-side, and imported.
I not know if or when specific engine options required the car be built stateside, or what was involved to allocate the Pontiac drivetrain parts - as opposed to the "Canadian Pontiac" (read: Chevrolet) drivetrain parts which I am sure Oshawa had plenty of in stock...

oshawacliff · Poncho Master!

Just found a source for Canadian Literature from an old issue of Old Autos

Ken Magee Literature copy.jpg

A long time advertiser

NOS · Poncho Master!

and Ken is a retired Pontiac/Buick dealer in Goderich, ON

unruhjonny · Guru

I just used the link, it goes directly to his ebay "store" now.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Ad is gone now, so apparently $52,900 was a reasonable price for this car?

LOL... I am soooo out of this hobby... biggrin

ABC123 · Uber Guru

MC wrote:
Ad is gone now, so apparently $52,900 was a reasonable price for this car?
LOL... I am soooo out of this hobby...

He just rewords it and relists it confuse

This would be more fun in my opinion,

1963 Pontiac Wagon! | Classic Cars | Ottawa | Kijiji (Best offer over $10,000)

c986e676-27ec-4c58-9eb1-588fc9c12e66?rul

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

That's cool, though admittedly I would have liked it without the improvements that the owner has done to it.

There are still cars around in the lower price ranges, but often with a lot of work to be done - some of the ones I've seen need very major stuff, like a frame swap, etc. Regardless, prices have still stayed up, i.e. a $7000 car 3 years ago is now solidly a $15-$20K car. The cheap $3000-ish range cars that you would expect to have to do a lot of work to, are now the $7000 - $10,000 cars. Just my rough observations... YMMV.

Which is fine... the market will bear what it will. But I'm opting out.

unruhjonny · Guru

MC wrote:
Ad is gone now, so apparently $52,900 was a reasonable price for this car?
LOL... I am soooo out of this hobby...

I noticed the original images were hosted on kijiji;

If at any point someone wants the images, you will either need to save them now, or ask me in the future (I don't believe that Kijiji keeps hosting images from removed ads too long).

I would be more incline to think the guy pulled his ad because he was heckled for one reason or another.

-- Edited by unruhjonny on Friday 30th of September 2022 04:46:00 PM

ABC123 · Uber Guru

This is the current ad as of posting

(RARE PONTIAC ONLY 2 BUILD IN CANADA) | Classic Cars | Mississauga / Peel Region | Kijiji

I still think it's a very cool car.

unruhjonny · Guru

it IS a cool car.

I stand by my thinking that heckling was a part of the removal - notice there is no asking price now.

I'd rather a 1971 Firebird Formula 400 4spd car though - But I just might be a bit biased ;)

After reviewing this car, and period literature, if this guy really wanted best bang for his buck, I would have thought that a GT-37 with the 400/4bbl would have been a cheaper car - I wonder if there is a reason that wasn't what was ordered (and if the M22/3.31 gears was legitimately intended).

-- Edited by unruhjonny on Friday 30th of September 2022 05:39:50 PM

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

unruhjonny wrote:
I would be more incline to think the guy pulled his ad because he was heckled for one reason or another.

Haha... well don't look at me. wink

If I were to heckle every car that I thought was overpriced, it would be half of the ads on kijiji... biggrin

And yes, it is a cool car. I'd love to own it, if I won a lottery. I'd be in that before a Firebird, unless it was a '68 400 4-speed (my grail Pontiac).

DRI · Addicted!

Hi guys. This 71 Lemans is a friends car. It is nice. The seats front and rear should be blue.