Appraisal vs. Real Cash Price

eeluddy · Uber Guru

Appraisal vs. Real Cash Price

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

I guess that the 20-40 G cars will stay consistant I would bet the the 250,000 to a Million are down 40-50% A lot of car were bought by non-car guys They inflated the market It time for a ass kicking biggrin

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Ok, I'll take a stab at it---

Daily drivers, likely down about 20-25%

Nicer restorations, likely down about 30-35%

Perfect show cars, all over the map. Some of those crazy priced cars seem to be 50% of what they were.

So tough to say, because a nice driver SD396 and a nice driver 283 powerglide Beaumont Custom may not have slid on the scale the same amount.

One thing I am amazed at is how well the prices of four doors has held up.

norontcan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

There has always been another issue with our Cdn prices and it relates to US exchange rate.
People, a short few years ago, used to see a comparable vehicle to theirs state side and then add the exchange rate ( up to 60% at 1 point ) when determining an asking price here.
Some appraiser still take this into account by first determining a US price and then converting. Trouble is that to achieve the US price you have to personally transport your vehicle to the US and then advertise it for sale. Otherwise the US guy is wise enough to realize the difference.
Of course just recently when the Cdn$ hit par many were not willing to grasp this and come to a realistic price. Especially if the had a, say '06, appraisal that took into account the then higher exchange rate.
Yes, vehicle pricing will be adversely/benefitially ( depending if you're a seller or buyer ), affected by todays economic realities. However, expect a lag while the market corrects itself and even longer for stubborn individuals to come to the realization. The lag will take some time to be reflected in the price guides etc as they are supposed to be a reflection of recent history so first they need the recent history.
Ted

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Haha, same time Carl, and look at our thoughts on the high buck cars!!!

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

eeluddy · Uber Guru

I'm going to try to make it to the RM sale just for a look at some nice iron. I won't be a bidder, just a spectator. Maybe some literature, that's it.

87 player bird · Poncho Master!

Maybe this is the time the "investors" finally loose their shirts, and get the heck out of the hobby so that younger people can get back involved! It's a shame that already there is a generation that has no interested in older cars, They are the tuner's now. Can't really blame them though, as they wanted to be car guy's and girl's just coulden't even afford to buy a rusty parts car cause of the Invester market! Hope a lot of the "gimme one in every color" guy's lose a ton and have to keep working! Leave the car's to the car guys and the investments to a broker!! My 2 cents

mfleury · Poncho Master!

i think barrett jackson got the price market for old cars crazy. i can never see a car worth 200.000.00 or a complete old car restored worth 40 to 60.000.00. i would go and buy a new one for less than that. thats just my thoughts sorry guys.

ak 67sd · Poncho Master!

I havent been involved with having any cars appraised (although this question has me thinking of asking this same question of someone like mike crown in the states that appraises). Is appraised value similar to other antiques in that there is an appraisal as to 'insured' value and another as to 'market value'... i would think many of the appraised #'s i've seen represent an 'insured' value, this would be inflated compared to market value typically. Many custom cars would have a much higher insured value appraisal compared to a real market value appraisal.

Also i dont think the higher end cars have taken too much of a slide, a quality built rare car represents a significant investment and hits a different market of buyer/seller, many are just not changing hands right now...

I would agree with others above that drivers have come down 20-30%, nicer show cars are all over, some seem like decent buys others are sticking to their guns.... what still makes me shake my head is the price difference between complete drivers and project cars... people are asking way too much for project cars that need body/interior when for $5-8k more you can busy a complete older resto, and have more to start with...

ak

87 player bird · Poncho Master!

yep.

65sssd · Poncho Master!

I have to agree with Carl with the slide of classic cars prices. Personally I have never been in the market for a 40000.00 to 60000.00 classic car and I don't want one. I would buy a new muscle car then! I fresh restore is 25000.00 max right now compared to the 35000.00 someone would try to sell a car for 2 yrs ago. I could always build one cheaper than buying one, so I'm always patient and wait for the reasonable prices. I think that goes for 95% of us. As for appraisers, they seem to lead the seller down a garden path when it comes to car prices. These sellers must have no knowledge of cars and the market for there cars when it comes to sell. They probably told there wifes that a muscle car is a investment at 50000.00 to 100000.00. Yikes, these are the people that will loose big and they should. I sold my 65 SS Chevelle for 6000.00 without the drivetrain and it needed bodywork. At least I would see it drive down the road one day at that price. The cars are never free but they should be reasonable to get the interest of the younger people.

davelacourse · Poncho Master!

Can't remember where I saw it but a day or two ago while I was browsing internet car ads for 60's cars (I do this a lot, to keep looking for the project after my 56) I ran across one nice one, not over-built or over-restored, can't remember what it was, maybe a Camaro, but the seller said something like "stock market dive leaves me short for retirement so even though I planned on keeping this one I need to sell it"

I wonder how many other people there are like this?

I wonder if the overinflated "collector" car market is going to dive like overinflated home prices did?

IMHO worst thing that happened to our beloved hobby was rich a******s bidding up car prices.

Oh, and I thought the guy with the Camaro or whatever was asking too much, I should have bookmarked it to come back later to see if he dropped the price as time went on.

Dave

65sssd · Poncho Master!

Some people think that we should share the load for there ignorance in over spending on there cars. At a certain level you are just pissing your money away by over restoring a car.

eeluddy · Uber Guru

Too many Bondo Buggys with a lot of B*llShi**ing owners is what ticks me off. Appraisers that don't really have a clue what they are looking at, and just ask the owner what he wants it appraised for is another problem. I have looked at so many of these types of cars and listened to so much crap from the owners I kinda feel glad when they get a dose of reality from all the "lowballers".

Astro Jet · Poncho Master!

eeluddy wrote:

I'm going to try to make it to the RM sale just for a look at some nice iron. I won't be a bidder, just a spectator. Maybe some literature, that's it.

Make sure you report back Earl and let us know. I would like to go but just don't have time this weekend.

I would think that most people here are right on the money, prices should be 25-35% down from their peaks. The really high price cars are only bought by the really high rollers and they could be all over the map now depending on rarity, how that particular "high roller" is doing, the car's overall uniqueness, etc. I pay much more attention to the "hobby grade" car, generally those below $40,000. I suspect there will be a lot more stuff going in the teens that previously went in the 20's, that's where the real heart of the market is.

Personally I think the auction won't be that busy. I know in previous years on Sat. all the seats were full around the auction stand whereas last fall it was 1/2 empty. The number of quality high end cars are down too. I'm on the mailing list and always get the brochure sent to me, this year it's pretty slim pickings, no "Reggie Jackson" type cars. They do have a 57 Laurentian convertible though "from a private collection in BC" that looks pretty nice. Should be a good monitor of what a desireable Canadian Poncho can bring, despite this depressed market!

http://www.rmauctions.com/CarDetails.cfm?CarID=r003&SaleCode=TS09

Astro Jet · Poncho Master!

ak 67sd wrote:

I havent been involved with having any cars appraised (although this question has me thinking of asking this same question of someone like mike crown in the states that appraises). Is appraised value similar to other antiques in that there is an appraisal as to 'insured' value and another as to 'market value'... i would think many of the appraised #'s i've seen represent an 'insured' value, this would be inflated compared to market value typically. Many custom cars would have a much higher insured value appraisal compared to a real market value appraisal.

Also i dont think the higher end cars have taken too much of a slide, a quality built rare car represents a significant investment and hits a different market of buyer/seller, many are just not changing hands right now...

I would agree with others above that drivers have come down 20-30%, nicer show cars are all over, some seem like decent buys others are sticking to their guns.... what still makes me shake my head is the price difference between complete drivers and project cars... people are asking way too much for project cars that need body/interior when for $5-8k more you can busy a complete older resto, and have more to start with...

ak

Under the Silver Wheels Plan you pay your premiums based on the appraised value, and that is what you receive if there is a total loss. It's like an annuity, you want this much money at the end of day, here is what you pay. It's endorsement number 19A for this policy and based on a stated value, it is what I have got, otherwise you are just buying a crapshoot. If the insurer can just go out and say well this is what the current market value of your car is, your premiums for property loss or collision should be declining each year as they would for your daily driver.

http://www.lant-ins.ca/silver_premium.php

I think a lot of the high end cars are being taken off the market right now, just like high end real estate. If there are no buyers, why bother listing it? All that will happen is insulting low offers which people will use to argue why you should reduce the price. Those who can afford it will just wait for better days to return.

87 player bird · Poncho Master!

I hope the values keep nosediving, that way dad's and kkod's can get back into the project as a fist car.Because if this dosen't happen, eventually no one will care about the cars and eventually the will wind up in the scrap heap. The younger kids have to start getting involved at a large number in order for the hobby to survive! This is about the cars, not about making money! Building memories with our children not retirement portfolios,sheesh! Glad to see some market adjustments (ie: bottom falling out) are coming into play.

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

Astro Jet wrote:

Under the Silver Wheels Plan you pay your premiums based on the appraised value, and that is what you receive if there is a total loss. It's like an annuity, you want this much money at the end of day, here is what you pay. It's endorsement number 19A for this policy and based on a stated value, it is what I have got, otherwise you are just buying a crapshoot. If the insurer can just go out and say well this is what the current market value of your car is, your premiums for property loss or collision should be declining each year as they would for your daily driver.

http://www.lant-ins.ca/silver_premium.php

Very true. I, too, am with Lant, although on the Custom Wheels plan at considerably more expense.

In Ontario, if you don't want to get into haggling with your insurer after a loss, be sure you have the 19A Agreed Value Coverage endorsement mentioned above.

If my car suddenly disappears, I already know how much the cheque will be for. smile

ak 67sd · Poncho Master!

It makes sense to have your insurance and even an appraisal based on replacement value, which for pretty much most cars would be higher than the actual selling price...

I dont really think the market ever went out of reach for dads/kids... they just shouldnt be looking at SS's or LS6's .... cougars, mustangs, buicks, etc. are all still very affordable, even though i do believe alot of project cars are overpriced... you can still get a decent 60s mustang for under 10k... they were that price 15-20 years ago!! some other cars got sucked up a because of the rare/desirable cars, but there's still lots to go around... i think most 'kids' just dont have a desire to build 60s cars because they are not emotionally attached to cars of that era... they just like different cars or other things... its not money, these 'tuners' are not cheap! their paint jobs and rims arent cheap, their stereos and other electronics aren't cheap... and if you look at their resale value these people are tossing a lot of money into the hobby, probably just as much or more than than the old car buffs.... car shows need to do more to appeal to a younger generation...enough with the 'rockin robin' tunes!hahaha!

ak

455gto · Poncho Master!

There is NADA.......These yahoos have their head in the clouds on the real prices of cars. Misleading the general public on prices.

jmont64 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

My impression with the appraisal price is it only reflects on what it would cost to replace your car like 67Heaven said. When you get your car appraised and the number comes out way more than what you think you could get for it sort of makes sense. We usually don't have that much into it but if it's gone tomorrow and insurance starts building your replacement the next day at $80 or $90 or whatever an hour the appraised value will be reached pretty quick but for most of us we are doing it as a hobby so our time isn't really getting paid for which to me is fine. Having said that if our car is stolen or destroyed you shouldn't get paid what it's worth but what it would cost for someone else to get it to the stage you did. Hopefully that would be the appraised value. I hope that makes sense.

-- Edited by jmont64 on Friday 3rd of April 2009 10:26:08 PM

68 327 4spd · Poncho Master!

i think it should be replacment value not appraisal value.

jmont64 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I guess when I think of appraised value my first thought has always been for insurance purposes so really appraised value should ideally be the same as replacement value. Almost like with a brand new vehicle that you buy and its written off in the first couple years when you insure it for a bit more you're given a new vehicle. In these situations appraisal price and replacement price is identical. I think a perfect appraisal price for your car should be the same, not what you can get by selling it, but what it would cost you to have it replaced.

eeluddy · Uber Guru

Well Hillar, you were right
"Make sure you report back Earl and let us know. I would like to go but just don't have time this weekend.

I would think that most people here are right on the money, prices should be 25-35% down from their peaks. The really high price cars are only bought by the really high rollers and they could be all over the map now depending on rarity, how that particular "high roller" is doing, the car's overall uniqueness, etc. I pay much more attention to the "hobby grade" car, generally those below $40,000. I suspect there will be a lot more stuff going in the teens that previously went in the 20's, that's where the real heart of the market is."
Went for a few hours last night. It was slow, numbers were way off. It was very quiet as far as a crowd by 9:30. Pretty thin in numbers. That '57 Laurentian convertible is just gorgeous. A nice 63 Grand Prix, black, 389,3x2, 4 spd. I'm sure there will be some bargains, but you have to be there for yourself to judge the quality.
A 73 Eldorado conv. that was in dire need of paint really caught my eye. It was a Florida car, orig. paint(White) that had lots of large bare rust spots. Orig red leather in VGC. Solid,solid car that looked really bad, but was the straightest old Cadi there. Should be a real bargain for someone with a good pair of eyes looking for a paint job project.