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Canadian Poncho Homepage -> Canadian Poncho -> The Lounge -> No wonder some people give up on religion .......
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73SC


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No wonder some people give up on religion .......
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Hang in there with me on this one, it is a complicated story but one with an ending that is hard to take.

My wife's parents are Macedonian ancestory, my wife was born here in Toronto. She was Christened in the Eastern Orthodox Church in the mother tongue of her parents, Macedonian.

I was raised in the Presbyterian Church, baptised there. We were married by a close friend who was a United Church Minister in his church.

In summary my wife and I are Christians and were were married in a Christian
ceremony. 

Fast forward to now. We have a good friend who is of Greek decent. Despite my wife being Macedonian the family absolutely adores her. Greeks also practice the Eastern Orthodox Religion only in the Greek Language.  I think it is well documented that the two cultures, Greek and Macedonian don't really mesh. As I said, despite this we have a wonderful 30 year friendship with this Greek family.

Time for a second marriage for my good friend. One big hitch, the wife to be is not Greek and she's not Christened in the orthodox relgion. Greek priest will not consider a marriage under these circumstances.

Idea, they ask my wife to be the God Mother and Christen the wife to be in the Greek Orthodox Church. Priest says this will be satisfactory.

My wife is reluctant to agree because she is fearful that as a Macedonian she won't be allowed to perfom the Christening in the Greek Orthodox Church, thereby causing embarassment and heart ache for the wife to be. My wife needs to be asked three times then finally consents.

Next she gets a call, priest needs to see he Christening papers. Ok she complies.  A little while passes and priest needs to see evidence she is a member of the Orthodox Church, Okay no problem. A few weeks pass and I get a phone call. Ray were you married in the Orthodox Church? No. Do you think you could restate your vows in the orthodox church, priest needs this done to allow Mary to be the God mother.  First off what do I have to do with my wife being the Godmother but I say hey for a life long friend if it will take me 15 or 20 minutes no problem, I get Mary to call her priest. Oh no you have to come to the Greek Orthodox Church NOT the Macedonian Orthodox Church and like this weekend because Christening is Jan. 9th. Say what? Why in the H would we go somewhere to be married in a language we don't understand so my wife can be the Godmother when we are already married in a Christain Ceremony recognized around the entire world as a holy union? No I don't think so.

I was deeply hurt to think that a Christian Priest in the Greek Orthodox Church denounced my Christian faith and deemed my wife to be inappropriate to be the Godmother. Well that's what it looks like but in reality the thought of having a Macedonian participate in a Greek ceremony must have been too much to bear. Either way you cut it, it's disgusting. Needless to say this has now strained a friendhip of 30 years.

DISCRIMINATION - what a wonderful thing. disbelief

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4SPEED427


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Ray, you know my faith. We've had some discussions. We both realize what it means to be a Christian. If I understand this right, (and you're right, it's complicated) you are being asked to compromise your beliefs to accommodate someone and you said no. If I have this right, good for you. You've done the right thing and I hope your friend realizes this and respects you for standing your ground for what you believe.

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73SC


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Thanks Carl for your kind words. It is complicated but at the end of the day we are Christians. My wife was asked to participate in a Christian ceremony and she consented. Bottom line is there must be some hierarchy of Christians because Mary isn't good enogh to be the Godmother in the eys of the Greek Orthodox Church. How my Christian faith gets dragged in is beyond my comprehension BUT it's not good enough either.

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4SPEED427


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We have sometimes considered changing churches to attend another local church. One thing will always keep us from doing that. Even though it's a mainstream Christian church, my baptism in an Evangelical Church is not recognized and I would have to be baptized again. Sorry, but if I am baptized on confession of my faith in Jesus Christ as my saviour, that's good enough for Him and if it's not good enough for a particular church, I struggle with that...

I guess that is a similar thing to what your are experiencing right now.

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Friday 11th of December 2009 01:27:01 AM

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73SC


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Yes that's it Carl.

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Taylor55


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I have to add a little humour to this thread. My Dad is an Anglician and my Mom is a Catholic. When they were married over 60 years ago the Catholic Church would marry them but not in front of the alter only in the rectory. That was OK with them but their own personal agreement was if they had any children the kids would be brought up Anglician. They had 7 children. The kids were all babtized in the Anglician Church. My grandmother on my mom's side was a devoute Catholic who did not think the Anglician baptism would count in God's opinion so right after we were baptized Anglician she got us baptized again in the Catholic church. We all figure we are the start of the two religions merging together.

Al



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Pontiacanada


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Ray, besides the religious differences, there is the "racial/cultural" difference ... the Macedonian vs. Greek thing, that I really don't entirely understand. They have been feuding/warring for eons.
I have a Macedonian friend in Toronto that has a very Greek-sounding surname. If somebody would say to him "Oh, are you are Greek", he would get very, very angry, and go into anti-Greek rhetoric.
By the way, I'm Irish/English. : )

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427carl


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Carl Stevenson wrote:

We have sometimes considered changing churches to attend another local church. One thing will always keep us from doing that. Even though it's a mainstream Christian church, my baptism in an Evangelical Church is not recognized and I would have to be baptized again. Sorry, but if I am baptized on confession of my faith in Jesus Christ as my saviour, that's good enough for Him nod.gifand if it's not good enough for a particular church, I struggle with that...

I guess that is a similar thing to what your are experiencing right now.

      I get frustrated, hearing the trials and tribulations of "Religion"   I am not Religious... I am Spiritual... As long as "Jesus" is being preached in the Pulpit, the sign on the building, doesn't matter to me...
     Its crap like this that drives Christians from Church..  Good for you, for making a stand smile  We will have to do this a lot in the future...disbelief

 



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jmont64


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Good for you Ray. I'm with the Carls, I couldn't waste 2 minutes getting caught up in the religious rhetoric but if Jesus is being preached I'm for it and my belief is Christianity gives me freedom not bondage to all of this. I'm not a very good guy but I'm forgiven and I do my best and only God knows my heart.

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jmont64 wrote:
I'm not a very good guy but I'm forgiven and I do my best and only God knows my heart.
Amen. My feelings exactly. If not for the death on the cross, I wouldn't have a hope. Because of it, I have nothing but hope. People can't take that away by trying to make me do this or that, no matter how hard they try.

 



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73SC


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Ya Darryl hits the nail on the head too. There are three things going one, The priest is prolonging this Macedonian/Greek conflict and also not recognizing another sect of Christianity then dragging me and my faith into it all by basically hanging his discrimination on me.

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427carl


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WE will pray for "Gods Will" in this situation    and it will turn around wink Amen

-- Edited by 427carl on Friday 11th of December 2009 12:45:43 PM

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eeluddy


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I feel sorry for you Ray. If it's any consolation I can commiserate as I am the son of a Irish Protestant father and an Irish Roman Catholic mother. It was more than a little intense at times mostly because my paternal grandmother didn't care much for Catholic's and my mother insisted we be raised as Catholic and that they be married in a Catholic church. This meant that my father, 1st born son had to convert. I wasn't around at the time but Granny was a tough hot tempered Irish Protestant (fresh off the boat as a 1st gen) so I'm sure a few choice words were spoken to say the least. Sad part of it was, it took til my Gramps & Dad passed away for her to ease up.


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59poncho


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i dont want to offend but i am not a religious person and i do respect others beliefs, the only problem i have is that if two people are in love then i think that is all that matters, isnt that what religion is all about, loveing and careing for one another? Again, no disrespect.

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427carl


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Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. . .And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. - excerpts from 1 Corinthians 13:4-13

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57poncho


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Well guys, I don't go to church so I really feel I don't have much input. All I know is I believe there is a god, but i don't think I have to go to church for him to hear me or accept me.

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67BBSD


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sounds like a lot of "worldly" paperwork for no good reason.

I don't think anyone is going to hell if they are a good person-

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