Another SS427?

Astro Jet · Poncho Master!

RE: Another SS427?

forespeed · Poncho Master!

For me the only one I would consider is the 67 SS 427, they are very unique. I had the chance to buy one years ago in Pontiac, MI. Drove down and looked it over but backed off when I saw the CE block under the hood. Today, I know that a motor change in that car would have been quite common and only slightly devalues the car.

The last 2-3 years, Joe Lizon and I have had our cars entered in a very nice car show at the largest Indian Casino in Michigan, Soaring Eagle at Mt Pleasant, MI. Every year I have been there someone has a pair of 67 SS 427 cars entered in the show. Same owner for both cars, one is a hardtop and the other is a convertible. Both cars are black but I have never gone over to see if they are automatics or 4 spd cars.
This show is the first weekend in June and definitly worth the drive over to see some great cars and stay in a 5 star hotel at car show prices.

-- Edited by forespeed on Thursday 24th of December 2009 10:54:39 AM

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

forespeed wrote:

For me the only one I would consider is the 67 SS 427, they are very unique.

Welcome to my nightmare. biggrin

Astro Jet · Poncho Master!

Yup, 67 is my favourite year as well. A friend of my Dad's had a 67 Impala 2 door hardtop when I was a kid, white with red guts. I used to love riding in that car. He pulled a big boat and trailer with it so it might have even been a big block but as I was only about 10 at the time, I hadn't quite started paying attention to those details yet. wink

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

For me it's simply the 67's dash that seals the deal.
I still find it to be far more sporting and timeless than any GM offered in the 68-70 era.
Rather Corvette like imop.

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

Sorry. I can't help myself. wink

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

If only we could turn back the hands of time, the perfect car for a car guy with three children and a pretty wife.....just like me!

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

Yes, Ray. But I couldn't afford two brand new cars in 1967.

By the way, no matter what the dealer brochures and order sheets said about the biggest engine option being the L-36 385-hp 427 in 1967, like this one.....

...if you got one of these on the firewall....

....you could get one of these under the hood....

-- Edited by 67HEAVEN on Wednesday 23rd of December 2009 02:52:32 PM

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

67HEAVEN wrote:

Yes, Ray. But I couldn't afford two brand new cars in 1967.

By the way, no matter what the dealer brochures and order sheets said about the biggest engine option being the L-36 385-hp 427 in 1967, like this one.....

...if you got one of these on the firewall....

....you could get one of these under the hood....

That tag hasn't hasn't done anything yet to prove its been on a 67 L72 car. I read all about it before. Show me some real proof, like paper work etc.

Now I'm not saying there were no L72 67's because if you look at the 67 B body assembly manual in several places it shows the L72 option cancelled in Late 66. But then in June or July of 67 it was re added.

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

Well, Andrew, as you can imagine, the terms "numbers-matching" or "original paperwork" had little meaning to us in 1967. We just drove them hard and put them away wet.

However, two points here:

1) I personally know the original owner of the car that the special order plate came from. He has one of the most illustrious engineering careers with General Motors and Chrysler that you can imagine. To say that he worked directly under Zora Arkus-Duntov, Chief Engineer - Corvette, or that he retired as the Plant Manager of the Chrysler Prowler-Viper assembly plant will give you some idea of his credentials. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind about his car. Did it mean all that much to him in 1967? Of course not. Like most of us at that time, it was on to other newer things. He sold it within a year.

2) Here's a quote from an interesting read on the 1967 Impala, by Aaron Severson, that you may find interesting.
"Beyond that, you could order as much power as your wallet and driving record could withstand. A few customers even special-ordered the L72 Corvette engine, a 427 cu. in. (7.0 L) monster with a claimed 425 gross horsepower (317 kW), although it was not a cataloged option."

Source - http://ateupwithmotor.com/model-histories/family-cars/147-mister-average-chevy-impala.html

Since I cannot produce any specific paperwork showing that car's VIN and the L-72 option, I'll understand if you are struggling with belief. That's okay too. Like I said, I know the original owner. That's good enough for me.

smile

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

I don't doubt the veracity of your post Bob. Back in the day, well we've been there before.....there will always be folks from Missourri........

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

I'm not doubting ( or struggling as you say) the story at all, I'm sure he had access to any engineering car etc he wanted.

I'm sure if you knew the right person at GM you could get what you wanted with in reason. Like a corvette L-72 engine.

In the end its a nice rare tag with a great story/history, but unfortunetly thats it.

-- Edited by 2qwik2c on Wednesday 23rd of December 2009 03:10:40 PM

-- Edited by 2qwik2c on Wednesday 23rd of December 2009 05:06:20 PM

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

cdnpont wrote:

For me it's simply the 67's dash that seals the deal.
I still find it to be far more sporting and timeless than any GM offered in the 68-70 era.
Rather Corvette like imop.

Agree, the 67 dash with tach & gauges is one of the cleanest layouts you'll see in that period.

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

67HEAVEN wrote:

gparis7 wrote:

....the 70 Buick Estate wagon. Some might consider it ugly, but I would love to have one. It's a 1 year only model as there were no full size Buick wagons after 64 until 70. In 71 they went with that clamshell tailgate design. And as everyone knows, the 455 Buick motor was brutally powerful.

I'm not sure if this will be pain or pleasure for you.........but here it is. A 370 horse 455 '70 wagon in beautiful condition. And, it's for sale.
http://www.connorsmotorcar.com/70Buick.html

I agree. I too like too many different cars, but I don't have Jay Leno's money. You'd think I could be satisfied with what I have, but my wife won't let me chase women, so cars it is.

I've seen that Buick wagon too. I seem to recall that the price may have been over $30K; now it's $25K. Perhaps it will eventually become affordable.

67BBSD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

gparis7 wrote:

Astro Jet wrote:

67BBSD wrote:

gparis7 wrote:

Being a Chevy guy too - and especially a 427 guy who is actively in the market for a 68 SS427 Impala - I love to see these topics posted here. But I generally don't post about Chevys because this is a Pontiac site, even though I know some of you may actually know of cars for sale.

Just want to check to ensure you guys don't mind the occasional Chevy post. That way I can test stuff off with some of you from time to time; like the 68 SS427 Impala convt I nearly bought three weeks ago - until I had it inspected and found rust in the floors and chassis. A dealer in the US has it for sale now - the car looks great, but it is driver quality, with non-matching numbers engine (which I did know up front), and you won't see any pics of the undercarriage.

These 67-69 SS427 cars were low production and went from top dollar $25-30K in 2004 to $50 - 75K in 2007, depending on body style. But values have fallen way off now. $45 - 50K would be top dollar for a number 1 numbers match car like this 69 now; and I'm not sure this is a number 1 car. The Buy It Now price might be in the ball park though, depending on its true condition.

Of course, there's no guarantee prices will hold where they are now. How about that $1.2M LS6 Chevelle convt that recently re-sold for $240K? I'm still hoping I might eventually get a matching number 68 SS427 convt at 2004 prices, and at a 95 cents + exchange rate.

we love car talk-besides at least half of the parts in our Canadian Pontiacs are Chevy !

and vice-versa! I'm interested in all GM b bodies, and after all, isn't that why we have a "non CP" cars for sale section? Post away about the Chevys you are considering buying any time John. I would love to pick up a big Buick and a big Olds as well (I'll leave the Caddies to certain other members on this site! ) One of my fondest memories when I first got my licence was being able to drive a 70 Olds 455 Delta 88 2 dr hdtp. It was butternut yellow (or whatever Olds called that yellow) and was owned by one of the bosses of my first summer job. I had the chance to take that baby out on some country roads (the job was near Peterborough) and let me tell you, there was a reason Olds called their engines "Rocket" V-8s!

Well, to be perfectly honest I like all the GMs too, especially certain Buicks. Example: the 70 Buick Estate wagon. Some might consider it ugly, but I would love to have one. It's a 1 year only model as there were no full size Buick wagons after 64 until 70. In 71 they went with that clamshell tailgate design. And as everyone knows, the 455 Buick motor was brutally powerful.

My problem is that I like so many cars - GM and otherwise - but like all of us, I have only so much money to spend and only so much storage space to occupy. So I have to be pragmatic. Which means the collection is smaller than I would like - but all I can manage.

-- Edited by gparis7 on Wednesday 23rd of December 2009 12:13:12 AM

buy them all ! one at a time !

67BBSD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Astro Jet wrote:

Yup, 67 is my favourite year as well. A friend of my Dad's had a 67 Impala 2 door hardtop when I was a kid, white with red guts. I used to love riding in that car. He pulled a big boat and trailer with it so it might have even been a big block but as I was only about 10 at the time, I hadn't quite started paying attention to those details yet.

When I was 10-my Dad's neighbour's college buddy had a 67 Chev yellow fastback, wire hubcaps, big cross flags on the fenders (bigger than my Dad's 283 Chevelle)-the rust was so much on the quarter panels I recall my uncle saying "you could chase a moose through it " ! anyway it didn't have that hood so was likely a lowly 396 but it sure did look good ! he visited around Christmas

2drpost · Uber Guru

that 'SPECIAL ORDER' is stamped on a '69 dash vin tag. confuse

i have doubts it was on a '67 car, which uses a vin tag mounted on the door post.
i'm not disputing john z's claim......but show me real proof of a '67 L72 b-body........

67HEAVEN · Poncho Master!

69 belair wrote:

...i'm not disputing john z's claim......

We can certainly agree on that, Dave.

Alan Colvin's great book (one in an amazing series) confirms the existence of 17 B-body 1967 Chevrolets which came from the factory with the L-72.

Apparently one other SS427 Z-24 car came with that engine besides John's. You all are, of course, free to accept that or not. Merry Christmas in either case. smile

Apologies to 65Camino for getting this thread sidetracked off the '69 Z-24. wink

For those of you who may be unfamiliar with Alan Colvin.........

Publisher's Note:

Chevrolet by the Numbers "TM" is the only authoritative reference for identifying and verifying the correct Chevrolet parts, by casting number, for your exact model. -- Restoring your Chevrolet to original factory specifications? You'll find the casting numbers that correspond to your car's Vehicle Identification number. With this correct information you will avoid buying -- and being sold -- the wrong parts. -- Buying a Chevrolet that has been restored? These numbers will help you determine whether or not the car has been authentically restored, and whether it's a smart investment. -- Searching for factory high-performance parts at a swap meets? Chevrolet by the Numbers "TM" tells you which parts to look for, why they are special, and which engines those parts came with. Other books rely on second-hand information or out-of-date part numbers. Author Alan Colvin documented every casting number for every Chevrolet V-8 engine and drivetrain part from 1960 through 1975, using original source material in Chevrolet's archives, including engineering blueprints, technical service bulletins and build sheets. He interviewed the original manufacturers and engineers and brings you fascinating stories of parts development from behind the factory gates. Most of this information has never before been seen in public. Every engine is covered, from the ultra-rare, high performance aluminum 427 ZL-1, to the common 283 found in Impala station wagons -- all engine blocks, cylinder heads, pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts, camshafts, manifolds, and more, are listed. If you absolutely want to know the original parts for your Chevrolet drivetrain -- not what interchanges or fits, but the correct part that came with your car when it was assembled -- Chevrolet by the Numbers "TM" has the answer. "...a must for swap-meet shoppers and restorers".

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

67HEAVEN wrote:

69 belair wrote:

...i'm not disputing john z's claim......

We can certainly agree on that, Dave.

Alan Colvin's great book (one in an amazing series) confirms the existence of 17 B-body 1967 Chevrolets which came from the factory with the L-72.

Apparently one other SS427 Z-24 car came with that engine besides John's. You all are, of course, free to accept that or not. Merry Christmas in either case.

Apologies to 65Camino for getting this thread sidetracked off the '69 Z-24.

For those of you who may be unfamiliar with Alan Colvin.........

Publisher's Note:

Chevrolet by the Numbers "TM" is the only authoritative reference for identifying and verifying the correct Chevrolet parts, by casting number, for your exact model. -- Restoring your Chevrolet to original factory specifications? You'll find the casting numbers that correspond to your car's Vehicle Identification number. With this correct information you will avoid buying -- and being sold -- the wrong parts. -- Buying a Chevrolet that has been restored? These numbers will help you determine whether or not the car has been authentically restored, and whether it's a smart investment. -- Searching for factory high-performance parts at a swap meets? Chevrolet by the Numbers "TM" tells you which parts to look for, why they are special, and which engines those parts came with. Other books rely on second-hand information or out-of-date part numbers. Author Alan Colvin documented every casting number for every Chevrolet V-8 engine and drivetrain part from 1960 through 1975, using original source material in Chevrolet's archives, including engineering blueprints, technical service bulletins and build sheets. He interviewed the original manufacturers and engineers and brings you fascinating stories of parts development from behind the factory gates. Most of this information has never before been seen in public. Every engine is covered, from the ultra-rare, high performance aluminum 427 ZL-1, to the common 283 found in Impala station wagons -- all engine blocks, cylinder heads, pistons, connecting rods, crankshafts, camshafts, manifolds, and more, are listed. If you absolutely want to know the original parts for your Chevrolet drivetrain -- not what interchanges or fits, but the correct part that came with your car when it was assembled -- Chevrolet by the Numbers "TM" has the answer. "...a must for swap-meet shoppers and restorers".

Alvin Colvins book does not confirm anything, it merely speculates. It says 17 engines were built but there is NO record of install. So how can you say there were 17 67 B bodies produced if there are no records of what these engines were used for?????

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

No recorded installs of 67 L72 cars.

John Z's 67 SS427 was a Chevrolet engineering chassis test car. Most likely the special order significance of it was that it was built for in house GM chassis engineering and testing. I would think for the most part they could build the cars how ever they wanted for testing and engineering purposes. Why not have a L72 in it when it was going to be a RPO. John tagged the car early on as "his" so when they were done testing with it he could buy it. He got the car with 3000 miles on it and sold it 2 years later for a 69 Caprice.

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Here is a picture of the car I was considering. In my mind I had bought it - until I got the inspection report. Nice car and I think it was looked after by the previous owner, but it needed more work than I anticipated. Volo Cars in Illinois is selling it now.

-- Edited by gparis7 on Thursday 24th of December 2009 06:01:07 PM

-- Edited by gparis7 on Thursday 24th of December 2009 06:02:18 PM

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

Looks like a very nice 68 from the pic, what did it need????

But John really deep down inside you know you really want a 67 biggrin

Merry Christmas

Andrew.

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

gparis7 wrote:

Here is a picture of the car I was considering. In my mind I had bought it - until I got the inspection report. Nice car and I think it was looked after by the previous owner, but it needed more work than I anticipated. Volo Cars in Illinois is selling it now.

67Poncho · Uber Guru

If I am reading this correctly, you could get this 425 horse option in '67? Is this car suppose to be a '67 with the 425hp engine as shown? Just wondering as the first pic,

is post '66 with the dual master cyl, but the second pic is pre '67 as it has the single cylinder master cylinder and the twin pinned temp switch in the intake for the cold and hot lamps in the cluster. Or is this a gereric pic just to show the engine? Just wondering since we are talking about the '67 model year...........

My buddy has a '67 Impala with a gauges cluster that he bought and installed.... Really does look good.....

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 25th of December 2009 10:10:45 AM

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

67Poncho wrote:

If I am reading this correctly, you could get this 425 horse option in '67? Is this car suppose to be a '67 with the 425hp engine as shown? Just wondering as the first pic,

is post '66 with the dual master cyl, but the second pic is pre '67 as it has the single cylinder master cylinder and the twin pinned temp switch in the intake for the cold and hot lamps in the cluster. Or is this a gereric pic just to show the engine? Just wondering since we are talking about the '67 model year...........

My buddy has a '67 Impala with a gauges cluster that he bought and installed.... Really does look good.....

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 25th of December 2009 10:10:45 AM

So far there are NO 67 L72 B bodies out there to prove that you could order the L72 from the factory as a RPO. There is evidence of it POSSIBLY being available from the factory assembly manual etc. But until a real documented one shows up its kind of a myth that hasn't been proved.

The top pic is a 68 or 69 L36 385HP 427.

-- Edited by 2qwik2c on Friday 25th of December 2009 10:24:54 AM