Where my Suburban is....

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

RE: Where my Suburban is....

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

The oversized pistons are a go, if I can sneak in a torquier cam I'll be happy. The exhaust system on my 5.7 Vortec Suburban is already pretty efficient. It is a dual system through dual cats with 2 1/2 pipes. There is a huge flange on dual entry into this enormous muffler just ahead of the rear wheels, and a massive 3" tail pipe exists behind the passenger side rear wheel. The CAA Tow truck driver who towed it to the shop asked me if it was a diesel because the tail pipe is so large in diameter. If I remember I'll get a shot of that too. You don't see too many like this one.

im2ner · Addicted!

sounds very similar to the set up on my 98 silverado
magnaflow pipes with a flowmaster 40 series muffler
simple yet effective & sounds so very nice

455gto · Poncho Master!

We need some pic's .

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

455gto wrote:

We need some pic's .

Wednesday morning I'm going to get some. May be evening bythe time I post them.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

im2ner wrote:

sounds very similar to the set up on my 98 silverado
magnaflow pipes with a flowmaster 40 series muffler
simple yet effective & sounds so very nice

Well it did sound nice, knocking and rattling send shivers down my spine, but it'll be back to life soon. biggrin

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Just got back in from the shop. Looks like we are going to keep it "numbers matching" the original block will be used, it looks good too. In fact everything looks pretty good except the one rod bearing that failed and oh ya the crank in junk!. About two winters ago the intake started to leak so I had that repaired. Seems like coolant seaped into the block and started the bearing failure process. I thought the block would have 4 bolt mains but it doesn't, I'll have to check what year they stopped casting 4 bolts. For your viewing pleasure...........

Bearings - the ones in the foreground are the most worn.

210,000 KM Pistons - mostly grocery getting miles by my wife

Making room for oversized Mahle Pistons - engine will now displace
5.8 litres.

There is another 350 block on the floor beside the boring
machine. That was mine if my block was toast.

Checking bore diameters

Ready for honning

Parts of the Vortec

The Culprit rod

The damage done - it's quite a groove, a nice paper weight now

The now famous Vortec Heads - Tony is going to "touch" them up a bit.

-- Edited by 73SC on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 03:00:53 PM

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

More parts of the Vortec

Crankshaft - scored and worn journal is visible

Anyone need a Lift....er - 65Camino points out they are rollers

Getting Honed

Nice cross hatching helps seat rings

The empty cavern

Nice use of a jack stand

The big tail pipe - just a few more days 'til we're back in business.

-- Edited by 73SC on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 12:31:12 PM

65Camino · Uber Guru

Cool!!! Mary wil be the terror of the neighbourhood now!!

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Did someone say Cadillac ? Well here is a Northstar.

65Camino · Uber Guru

Those heads look huge compared to the block!

-- Edited by 65Camino on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 10:30:27 AM

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

" Boy a bare Northstar block isn't all that different from a 350, but the heads are massive works of art. "

From my first post on this thread. I told you so.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

This is what Wiki says about the L31 Vortec 5700:

The Vortec 5700 L31 is a V8 truck engine. Displacement is 5.7 L. It is the last production Generation I small-block from Chevrolet. The L31 replaced the LO5 in 1996. Known as the GEN 1+, this was the final incarnation of the 1955-vintage small block, ending production in 2005 with the last vehicle being a Kodiak/Topkick HD truck. Volvo Penta and Mercury Marine still produces the L31. The "MARINE" intake is a potential upgrade for L31 trucks. Using this "MARINE" intake will allow the use of common types of injectors with various flow rates while still maintaining emission compliance.

The cylinder heads feature combustion chambers very similar to those of the LT1 V8, but without the reverse-flow cooling. As such, the L31 head is compatible with all older small-blocks, and is a very popular high performance upgrade. It offers the performance of more expensive heads, at a much lower cost. It does, however, require a specific intake manifold (a Vortec head has four bolts attaching the intake manifold as opposed to the traditional six bolts per head). The 2002 model year was the final year for the L31 5.7 L small block V-8 whose origins date back to 1955. The Vortec 5700 produces 255 horsepower (190 kW) and 330 ft·lbf (450 N·m) of torque. It is currently being produced as a crate engine for marine applications and automotive hobbyists as the "Ramjet 350".

L31 applications:

1996-2003 Chevrolet Express/GMC Savana full-size vans
1996-1999 Chevrolet/GMC C/K full-size trucks
1996-1999 Chevrolet Suburban/GMC Suburban full-size long-wheelbase SUVs
1996-1999 Chevrolet Tahoe/GMC Yukon (and 2000 Tahoe Limited) full-size short-wheelbase SUVs
1999-2000 Cadillac Escalade

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

73SC wrote:

Just got back in from the shop. Looks like we are going to keep it "numbers matching" the original block will be used, it looks good too.

Good news! Dad now you can run it in the F.A.S.T class at the drags... Factory Appearing Stock Truck

455gto · Poncho Master!

Is Tony going to grind the air intakes on the heads for better air flow to match those big pistons.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

455gto wrote:

Is Tony going to grind the air intakes on the heads for better air flow to match those big pistons.

"Machine the valves" & "Touch up the heads" were his words. It's going to be good for close to 300HP, just a little improvement over what it was sales brochure rated at 255HP. I will get the details when I go back for more shots. Won't be until Monday, Tony's son is in a Silver Stick Tournament starting tomorrow in the Falls.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

How about the cam Ray? Any changes there?

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

69Laurentian wrote:

How about the cam Ray? Any changes there?

Brand new hydraulic roller camshaft, .431 intake / .451 exhaust, duration 196 intake /206 exhaust. The truck has to be reliable and driveable for my wife afterall, I don't drive it except maybe the odd run to the cottage and really the Vortec has plenty of punch already. 255 NET HP is 350 or so GROSS, old school measure. Combustion chamber will be 64 cc, valves will be 1.94 intake and 1.5 exhaust compression ratio will be about 9.5:1, rockers will be 1.6:1 ratio. Bore and stroke will be 4.030 x 3.48. I am going back on Monday to see the new parts so I will have details then. More Photos too. We are getting some odds and sods too, like an new belt tensioner for example, wires & plugs so it will be running well.

PS: I checked the cam profiles of the various famous small block engines. The new cam lift is very similar to the L79 327 and the duration is very similar to the 305 HO L69. I don't know how to factor in the 1.6:1 ratio since all old school engines used 1.5:1 factory rockers.

-- Edited by 73SC on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 08:00:55 PM

im2ner · Addicted!

did you notice where the starter mounts in the NorthStar
-- between the heads

the V8 Lexus/toyota motors prior to 2007 (4.0/4.7 liter) also share this wonderfull mounting position
some of them take in excess of 6-7hrs to replace the starters

i'm currently replacing exhaust valves in an Is250 ( carbon deposit related problem )
i'll have to get some pictures uploaded - ask Todd he's seen the process ( 28hrs)
the heads are the same size as the block

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

I think the starter position in a Northstar is both genius and stupidity. Quiet and Safe from road grim oil and krud, low potential for corrosion of electrical connections BUT a PITA to change. While not his main business, apparently Tony has this down to inside two hours and for those in the know he is the Cadillac Northstar go to guy in Toronto. I suppose with all those tear downs and rebuilds he knows the short cuts.

I guess the heads are what is making all the power in these small displacement V8 engines. Is that valve replacement job under warranty?

Beaumont4008 · Uber Guru

Those 1.6 rockers will change your cam lift from .431 intake / .451 exhaust to .459 intake/ .481 exhaust.

You take your lift and devide by 1.5 then times by 1.6 .

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Thanks Ian, So I assume that works for duration somehow too?

Anyway, according to my charts that recalculated lift is better than thecam used in the RPO Z28, RPO L82 and RPO LT-1.

-- Edited by 73SC on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 11:32:10 PM

im2ner · Addicted!

Yes it is a warranty job - plain & simple - there is no easy route
- engine & trans have to be dropped out the bottom & seperated
-- the oil pan has to be removed to access the oil pump pick up bolts ( oil pump is in timing cover )
-- timing cover has to be removed to remove cam holders
-- cam holders & all valve hardware ( roller rockers & very small lifters) have to be removed
-- remove heads - replace exhaust valves & decarbon heads & clean intake valves
-- clean all parts & reassemble in reverse order -- phew !
this one is a rwd - add 3-4hrs for the Awd ones - front diff is mounted to the side of the block & the pass axle runs through the oilpan

The updated exhaust valve have a slight chamfer cut into the stems
its cut to match up where the valves rest @ in the guide , the theory is that the carbon will be broken off @ the chamfer instead of occasionally sticking the valve open
witch is unpercieveable , but sets off the "check engine" light & puts the vehicle into limp mode

from what i've heard the same problems is cropping up on othe vehcles with direct injection (bmw, audi ) - more common with lower milage , improper fuel grade & short trip vehicles

back to the rebuild - how much is this costing you ??

-- Edited by im2ner on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 11:34:05 PM

-- Edited by im2ner on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 11:34:37 PM

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

im2ner wrote:

back to the rebuild - how much is this costing you ??

We agreed on $2,050 for the engine and $850 Re & Re. I also had a quote on an exchange engine at $1,650 with Re & Re $1,200 and the selling dealer, City where I also bought Cadillacs came in after talking to the Principal at $3,000 for a GM engine and $1,700 Re & Re. I could have purchased a warrantied salvage yard engine as well and saved about $1,000 with Tony, but I like my choice, especially now that we are using the original block.

We will see in a few days how things turn out, hard decision to make, but with five vehicles there was no gun to my head so I took my time deciding what to do. How many shops would let you come in a take photos like Tony did, that attitude and level of customer service goes a long way with me.

-- Edited by 73SC on Thursday 7th of January 2010 12:52:47 AM

Beaumont4008 · Uber Guru

73SC wrote:

Thanks Ian, So I assume that works for duration somehow too?

Anyway, according to my charts that recalculated lift is better than thecam used in the RPO Z28, RPO L82 and RPO LT-1.

-- Edited by 73SC on Wednesday 6th of January 2010 11:32:10 PM

No , the duration stays the same. Only changes the lift.