Not in favour of the oilsands projects in Alberta? Read this....

67SD396 · Poncho Master!

Not in favour of the oilsands projects in Alberta? Read this....

87 player bird · Poncho Master!

As someone who was born and raised in Montreal, I can say, wall in Quebec, and fill it with water. First get 80gp the heck out of there:)

65sssd · Poncho Master!

The population will vote it's choice. With Quebecs high population it tends to make alot of decisions. Killing another industry is a great idea!! NOT!!!!!!

80GPLJ · Guru

Thanks 87, considering I don't live anywhere near qbec

Leo · Addicted!

67SD396 wrote:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/What+Quebecers+their+wish+oilsands+closed/2414053/story.html

As an Albertan and an oilfield worker, I find this very thought provoking to say the least. Hopefully this gets around to more Canadians.

Hi Mike. As an Albertan and a oilfeild worker maybe you can shed some light on this topic. I sure would like to know the truth about what is happening over there. I just finished reading the book "Tar Sands" by Andrew Nikiforuk. I could not put the book down. I was soooo shocked at what this author says is happening over there. If there is even only 50% truth in what he claims, I am shoked that the province of Alberta is allowing this to continue, and even more shocked that the rest of Canada is turning it's back on a sister province while this greed continues.
Mike - Please tell me this book is all crap and Andrew Nikiforuk is being sewed for slander or even better has been shot for turning Canadians against Canadians.
Leo

66 Grande guy · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I'm an Albertan and a native of the oil sands area and a provincial gov worker that deals with land management in the area. I have heard the debates, seen the impacts and lived with the local effects my whole life.

I would say there is truth in both sides. Alberta needs to lose its frontier mentality and there are hard choices to make. The article from the Gazette outlines them well. The days of consequence-free development are over. They were never really there, we just didn't want to think about them

I will only say this: Its easy to be sanctimonoius but its hard to make decisions with the right balance for local jobs, non local jobs, local environment and wildlife, the broader environment, aboriginal and treaty rights, climate change, world opinion, world issues, government revenues, politics, and lobby groups of all kinds. That's the kind of stuff I wrestle with everyday. I also remember to keep this in perspective: A single forest fire in this area in 2002 burned off 900 square miles of boreal forest in three weeks with one hell of a pile of smoke pollution and carbon release but nobody said anything cause that's nature so it's OK.

If the city-based greenpeacers who usually arrive to protest those horrible petroleum producing machines riding jets and renting pickups and then go back home the same way would have to make those kind of balanced decisions maybe they'd be as confused as I am as to whether I'm one of the good guys or the villains.

(Case in point, the recent image of local eco campaigner/convicted oil patch bomber Weibo Ludwig gives a media inteview about further fights needed against the oil patch while hanging out of his loudly idling diesel pickup. This is the kind of hypocrisy that these clowns never think through.)

Sorry for the rant but this is not a simple issue.

-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Saturday 16th of January 2010 03:13:30 PM

67SD396 · Poncho Master!

Leo wrote:

67SD396 wrote:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/business/What+Quebecers+their+wish+oilsands+closed/2414053/story.html

As an Albertan and an oilfield worker, I find this very thought provoking to say the least. Hopefully this gets around to more Canadians.

Hi Mike. As an Albertan and a oilfeild worker maybe you can shed some light on this topic. I sure would like to know the truth about what is happening over there. I just finished reading the book "Tar Sands" by Andrew Nikiforuk. I could not put the book down. I was soooo shocked at what this author says is happening over there. If there is even only 50% truth in what he claims, I am shoked that the province of Alberta is allowing this to continue, and even more shocked that the rest of Canada is turning it's back on a sister province while this greed continues.
Mike - Please tell me this book is all crap and Andrew Nikiforuk is being sewed for slander or even better has been shot for turning Canadians against Canadians.
Leo

Hi Leo, I'm not farmiliar with the book or the point of view of the author so it wouldn't be wise of me to take a side one way or the other. In all circumstances involving the environment, it seems there are activists (extremists) against oilfield activity. These same people also benefit from the oilfield but refuse to accept that they support it in any way at all. Not one of them can say they live exactly as our forefathers did and live exclusively off the land. Most of them have cars, drive on asphalt roads, use electricity for heat and light, or burn some type of fuel to heat their homes. The examples of this type of hipocrisy are numerous and this is where I am troubled. Everyone has to do their part to not abuse the planet but unfortunately we live in the developed world and each of us will make an impact on the environment during our lives, even if it is unwillingly.
As far as the situation in Fort McMurray goes.....it's not a pretty site at all because it is above ground and clearly visible for all to see. I haven't been to Fort Mac since 2002 and can only guess at what is happening now. Prior to 2002, I had spent 6 winters doing exploritory drilling for Suncor and watched part of our earth getting moved for oil extraction. If we think what we are doing is bad, maybe we better examine the practices of other nations on the planet. Canada has some of the toughest environmental policies on earth and maybe the author should examine the world as a whole. By doing so, he would find that there are other countries that take no resposibility for the environment what so ever.
Of course, all of this is up for debate but in the meantime, I shall keep drilling oil wells so that my fellow CP'ers have fuel for their hotrods. As well, I would like it to be known, I'm no expert and this is just my

66 Grande guy · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Well said.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Looking at a sat. map, from space it appears that the swath the project encompasses seems really quite insignificant seen in context with the size of the landmass. To my reconing it is likely about a little less than 1/2 of PEI.
Is it the damge to the land or the amount of energy required to extract the oil that is the big concern?

Little light spot in the center of the circle is the sands.

Leo · Addicted!

Thank you 66 Grande guy and also 67SD396 for responding to my post. I think you may have to read this book to understand the depth of the sorrow and grief I feel for Albertans and Canadians in general. The author writes of horrors and attrocities, cover ups of death, destruction and billion dollar(with a B) deals between politicians and big business that shook me to the core. I have to wonder if any or at least how much of this is true !!!
Leo

2qwik2c · Poncho Master!

I think the biggest problem Quebec has is that all this oil isn't in Quebec.

I lived in Fort Mc Murray for two and half years and worked with many Quebecers out there at the refineries.

Canada may have strict environmental policies but it is shocking to see what really happens up there. I sure as hell ain't no tree hugger as I like my gas burning hydro carbon producing toys but you just gotta like when it rains up there and there is a yellow skim on the puddles of water from all the sulfur in the air. Or the nice brownish haze in the sky around the refineries best seen when taking off from the airport.

But we need oil, no doubt about it so this is the way it is.

50torpedo · Guru

As I write this from a camp north of fort mcmurray, and work at one of the few expansion projects on the go right now, not only would it hurt all provinces in canada but look at the amount of workers we have from other countries, how many families are we supporting world wide, although the open pit mining operations look bad they are moving to other forms of extraction such as steam asisted gravity drainage, which other than drilling some wells and adding a steam gereation system there is no real disturbimg of the surrounding ecosystem.... look at it this way without the production of the approx 1.8 million barrels in alberta we could be sending all our money elswhere , it s your choice spend the money and get the benifits at home or send it all abroad

bill in the oil sands

timbuk · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

ya know the oil is in the ground already so that cant be good either.I had the pleasure last year of working at syncrude just north of mcmoney and miine it or leave it its still a hazard either way.Work has slowed down up there and could resume at ful pace anytime.Ive seen lots of heavy industry in my trade and there is always impact to the enviroment.Logging,paper,smelters,you name it.Its never gonna go away.Stay warm up there Bill,maybe see ya next spring! timbuk

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Don't be surprised if something ridiculous happens.

Remember, programs like Cash for Clunkers takes perfectly good running cars off the road and the engines are destroyed rather than allowing them to be recycled. Sometimes the things that seem to be an impossibility come to fruition.

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Aren't plastics and fertilizer absolutely huge consumers of petroleum? What about home heating? Maybe we should just burn wood in our fireplaces (oops! I forgot, some locales don't allow even that!)

I don't mind a balanced approach that takes the big picture into account. I really can't stand these radical "do gooders" that seem to always take a simplistic "all or nothing" stance.

If there is a way to keep the extraction process clean that is cost effective, of course we should be doing it, however bankrupting a country for a utopian and myopic ideal seems really foolish though. Just think of the staggering amount of poisons and pollutants a single volcano spews out, yet the world hasnt come to an end. I know David Suzuki would disagree with me, but he has made a nice living espousing such platitudes for many decades. The world was around before him, and I'm wagering that it will be around after him.

Nobody mentioned Al Gore. Don't get me started over that scathing hypocrite. He is another who is milking this fear mongering in a grand manner. I guess there is too much money to be made for some in an emissions credit program. It may make some industries a lot of money while bankrupting others. There are too many making too big a show, but just wait until you see how it will affect all of us. I dont trust any of this Climate Change political movement; there is just way too much room for corruption. China wont sign on, and you know how much of a damn they give about the climate. Yet here we are all principled, buying Chinese stuff as fast as the containers come in and without regard for Chinas pollution record. If we follow through with this draconian, binding emissions regulation that will be enforced by an elitist, non-elected, offshore 1-World government I believe that we will really regret it. Sure, since we care enough to worry about it we will be paying for it. Meanwhile other gross polluting countries will laugh as they assume their role as leading exporters of the world (old news actually).

Its funny how one can have the luxury of having all these high principles, but if Canada goes bankrupt of a series of political and strategic blunders then it will be every man for himself. These platitudes will go out the window when the country is broke.

Sorry to go off on a tangent. Er, what was the topic again? smile

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

CdnGMfan wrote:
Sorry to go off on a tangent. Er, what was the topic again?

I forget!!!

I think your point is this is a proverbial whiz in the ocean if I understand you right. If so, agreed!

67SD396 · Poncho Master!

Let's not forget that a bicycle has rubber tires (petroleum based) and most shoes have a rubber sole. As stated before, we'd have to live like our forefathers in order to not use petroleum based products. I don't believe there is any turning the clock back now. I feel sorry for our children, as these radicals are growing in leaps and bounds with no insight to the consequences or the reality of their actions.