Swapping out Powerglide behind 261 6 cylinder, for 2004R or 700R4? Any advice?

Str8six · Veteran Member

Swapping out Powerglide behind 261 6 cylinder, for 2004R or 700R4? Any advice?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

RE: Swapping out Powerglide, for 2004R or 700R4? Anyone done it?

67SD396 · Poncho Master!

The 200 4R is the easier swap from my experience. As Carl has said, the length is the same as a glide which keeps the driveshaft length the same. If you are concerned about the durability of a 200, I suggest a shift kit. The shift kit will make the shifts firm and get rid of the mushy feel that they have stock. The 700R4 is larger and makes for a tight fit in some of the older cars. They can be built to last as well. My thinking is the 200 is the more economic choice and easier install.

Duke · Newbie

RE: Swapping out Powerglide, for 2004R or 700R4? Anyone done it? Any advice?

68 427 · Poncho Master!

WELCOME TO THE SITE. CANADIAN MODEL PONTIACS USED CHEVROLET FRAMES. YOURS IS AN AMERICAN MODEL. I'M SURE YOU COULD INSTALL A 454, BUT I'M NOT SURE IT WILL DROP RIGHT INTO A PONTIAC FRAME. I'M SURE SOMEONE WILL FILL YOU IN SOON ENOUGH THOUGH.

DANO65 · Poncho Master!

2004r is longer than the old cast glide, about 2" if I remeber correctly, drive shaft will have to be shortened as well as a fine spline yoke as opposed to the coarse spline on the cast glide. The trany crossmember will have to move back as well. Not a huge job if you are handy with a grinder and a welder.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Wasn't the 200 in the Grand National? What did they do to it to make it stand up to the power of the Turbo 6?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Yes it was, and one tranny guy I talked to about them said when he had it apart it had a I believe one heavier clutch pack as well as a different servo and some valving??? Not sure enough to bet on it, but the 200 in the 87 GN we had for 9 years never failed to screech the tires pretty hard into second gear!

Elroy · Poncho Master!

From what I have heard, the 200's can be built to be as strong as a built 700 , not ?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I have heard the same. Lots of guys I say that to shake their head but I cite the Grand Nationals...

Str8six · Veteran Member

Thank you for all the feedback already. Only question is that I am unsure from a few different posts whether the 2004R is in fact the same length as the cast glide or is it actually longer? I do not have the adapter plate yet, still in the mail, but depending on its thickness that will move me further back also.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Somewhere on here is a post showing the lengths. I know from experience the aluminum powerglide is the same length as the 200 overdrive. Has anyone replaced a cast iron powerglide with an aluminum powerglide? We can maybe find out if that answer comes in...

gennaro · Veteran Member

Wondering if you ended up doing the swap and if so how it turned out?

65Camino · Uber Guru

My '65 El Camino came with a 700R4 when I bought it. First gear is better then a 200R4 and makes for better launches.

ls7gto · Veteran Member

doing it myself ! pulled the 283/glide today. Going with a 700r4, since i have a fresh one , but would rather have a 200r4. I will measure it for the driveshaft cut tomorrow. the cast iron PG, and looks about an 1 1/2 inches shorter than a alum. p/g.

mines a 61 safari, putting a 400sbc along with a 700r4.

ga · Addicted!

that didnt take long, it will probably wake her up a bit!

Elroy · Poncho Master!

700R4 great choice. Did the 66 Camino, had to shorten the shaft 2 3/4 Need to get the best kickdown setup tho you can . Thats the trick with these trannys. There are some options out there that are worth looking at

66 Beau · Poncho Master!

From the research I did a few years ago, the 200 is the same length and uses the same yoke as the mid-60's aluminum powerglides. Makes for a very easy swap.

The 700's are longer (so you have to cut the drive shaft). They are also a little bigger in diameter and can be a tight fit under the tranny hump. I believe the crossmember has to be moved back to the TH400 position for both the 200 & the 700.

The Grand National 200 r4's are stronger and most desirable and most difficult to find. Generic 200's are believed to be weaker than a generic 700. Both can be built to take a lot more torque but the 200 is a lot more expensive to beef up. Below 300 ft lbs of torque, a stock 200 in good shape will likely last forever. To make it stand up 400+ ft lbs will likely cost you $2500 to $5000.
From what i've been told, the 700 can be made to take up to about 450 ft lbs for much less than what it would cost to beef up the 200.

I initially installed a 200 straight from the junkyard behind my 350 (380 ft lbs) and it started to get pretty soggy after a season. Swapped in a rebuilt 700, and have had no problems in 7 years. (knock wood).

beaucarlo · Guru

has anyone checked fuel mileage gains?.....just wondering how my 64 beau 194 ci would react? I have a 200R from a Montecarlo SS.

Elroy · Poncho Master!

the 700 fit the camino perfect as far as the hump was concerned. Just had to modify the C Member to drop the tail end 1.5 inches or so. Move the mount plate to the bottom of the c member

dualquadpete · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I heard that the 700 series need the kick down adj. before you move the car & is a critical setting or you'll "snuff" it in seconds!!! True??? don't know!!!

gennaro · Veteran Member

Would it be possible to give me a run down on what you did and found with the swap. What tranny you went with. Im restoring a 60 parisienne conv with a 283 powerglide and i may be modifying the drive train. I have a 1988 gmc vandura with a 4 spd auto tanny im thinking of using but im not sure what tranny is in it at this point.

jim_ss409 · Guru

I think the 200-4R is easier to install in any of the later cars (65 and up) that were available with a TH400 because the 400's transmission mount setting is the same, or at least really close, (It's been a while since I've done one) If the car has a TH350 you can usually just slide the cross member back to the set of holes for the optional TH400 and everything will line up, I think, again it's been a while. Anyway, it's not all that difficult and there must be a ton of information on the web because it's a really common swap.

I have put a 200-4R in an X frame car (1958 to 1964) but if I were doing it again I'd use a 700-R4 because the transmission mount is closer to lining up. With the X frame you can't simply slide the cross member back, you have to narrow it. With the 700-R4 you might get away with leaving the cross member where it is and just drilling new holes for the mount.
If you're doing a swap into an X frame car it's very important to get the new transmission sitting at the same angle as the old one. If not you'll get driveline vibrations. Take a couple of measurements from the frame to the output shaft before you pull the old transmission. That way you'll have something to refer to when you put the new one in.

The kick down cable adjustment is important but again, it's not that difficult to get it right. I wouldn't say these swaps are easy but they are a good winter project and you won't believe how much nicer the car will be with four gears instead of two or three.

BALLANTYNE · Veteran Member

RE: Swapping out Powerglide behind 261 6 cylinder, for 2004R or 700R4? Any advice?

tjcruzr · Member

I traded out my power glide/283 in the 64 for a 305/200 engine/tranny combo from an 86 Grand Prix. There was a lot of fiddling on the install, but it drives nice and gets around 22 MPG, sometimes better if I quit driving like I'm 16. As far as the mount goes, we just made up a new cross member from some square tubing and welded in some new plates to bolt it to (after careful alignment). The drive shaft had to be shortened, and we had some fun finding a yoke that would adapt with the right U-Joint. I had a shop shorten and rebalance the shaft, and install a new hangar bearing at the same time. The hangar bearing seemed to be a bit cheap, and the metal where the bolt goes into it stripped out pretty easy, so I just had some nuts welded on. I wasn't involved in the kick down cable rigging, so I can't tell you about that. I had to make up new cooling lines which was fun, and I plumbed it in to the original rad, though I would like to run a separate cooler. The torque converter lockup I just wired up to a lighted switch on the dash, and cruising on the highway I would flip it on, and it was almost like getting another gear. For the shifter, go to "Shiftworks" and get a conversion kit that comes with a new index plate and decal for your console, it was pretty cheap and easy to install, though the cable needed a new hole drilled in the hump, and the cable pressed out the side of the console a bit which made it hard to get the console back on. I had a shop take a look at the tranny, and for $400 they went through it and replaced some bands and such, and over all I am really happy with this setup. It makes the car so much more drivable. I've lived away from the car since I did this swap out (8 years now), and have never gotten the chance to fine tune some things like to adjust the shift cable to get it into first only, and the reverse lights come on when it goes to neutral. As well, the switch for the tq converter lockup has quit working. It's got some pretty mushy shifts which I would like to address, and get a proper cooler into it. These are pretty simple, and are on the agenda for some day when I live near the car, for now, my old man gets to drive it around like an old man with his old man hat on, annoying people in mini vans in a rush. Good luck, hope this helps a bit... I have really enjoyed the car since I did the coversion, it's been out to BC and down to Toronto with no problems, not even once...