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Post Info TOPIC: Have you ever seen a 409 Chevrolet 4 door ? RHD?


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Have you ever seen a 409 Chevrolet 4 door ? RHD?


wink

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P1010056.jpg

P1010056.jpg



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P1010059.jpg

See where the radio is?

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P1010139.jpgP1010139.jpgP1010139.jpg

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Australian; that explains it. I've never seen a 409 4 door myself but back in the late 80s there was a feature in Super Chevy or one of the Muscle car mags about a 63 Impala 4 dr sedan, 409/425 dual quad 4 speed car that was documented as being ordered that way.

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Nice ride!

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That'a a nice car!! I wonder where they got the 436 HP rating from? Might be a different rating system in Australia, I think the European sysyem is slightly different from ours so perhaps thats why.

As to Canadian 4 dr 409's there was a 1963 or 64 Pontiac 4 dr 409, 340 HP on PEI many years ago. The engine got removed as the car was rusty but it was kind of famous for a while.

Thanks
Randy

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There is a thread that mentions this car...it seems that it was converted in Australia using Aussie parts. There were NO factory rhd W-blocks.

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Carl, I noticed the radio as well. Looks like they "moved" the left half over to the right side & did some modifications. The glove box is 'smack" under the instrument "cluster I don't think they did the RHD. dash like that from factory??? Unusal car to say the least!!!!

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Oracle wrote:

There is a thread that mentions this car...it seems that it was converted in Australia using Aussie parts. There were NO factory rhd W-blocks.



It did say on his data board, that the car was "special ordered" from GM....

never say never.....

P1010139-2.jpg

 



-- Edited by 427carl on Saturday 22nd of January 2011 11:11:00 AM

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Beechey's Chevrolet Impala 409
23 Jan 2009 | There was only ever one car driving legend Norm Beechey wanted to buy back

Words: Steve Nally; Pics: Ellen Dewar

 

They called him Stormin Norman but maybe Australian touring car legend Norm Beechey should have been dubbed Mr Muscle, because the tin-top king really kicked off the Aussie muscle car boom when he imported his famous 1962 Chevrolet Impala 409.

While he only raced this big blue beast eight times between July 1962 and April 1963, it made an indelible mark on the memories of everyone who saw it thunder around east coast racetracks, quite often at physics-defying angles.

It also left its mark on Beecheys psyche too. Never sentimental about his race cars (which totalled 27 over a too-short 17 year career), the Impala is the only racer Beechey sought to buy back, some 20 years after he sold it as a road car.

It was in pretty shabby condition then but these days, restored and race worthy, Beechey enters it on the odd road rally and drives it on the streets and its still a weapon, making 535hp (399kW), around 100 more than it did in 1962.

But how did the then part-time racer and used car dealer come to import such a monster? Beechey had already tasted American iron having raced a Ford Customline in the late-50s, but during this era 3.4-litre Jaguars ruled the racing jungle and his biggest nemesis was a nuggetty bloke named Bob Jane, who would have a quicker 3.8-litre MkII Jag for 1962.

Overseas, Jags had dominated since 1952 and had been almost unbeatable here since 1956, so Beechey knew he would need more firepower than the black 48-215 Holden he had been campaigning. But it was no use buying a Jaguar to beat a Jaguar; he had to find something else.

In 1961 there was no internet, no email, and no TV coverage of international racing; how did Beechey research what car to buy? Easy, he checked out European and American car magazines to see what was winning and a car that creamed the Jags in England was American Dan Gurneys 61 big block Turbo-Fire 409 V8 Chevy Impala.

Beechey, now 75, and sharp as a tack with a prodigious memory, still has the June 1961 issue of (ital)Motorsport that includes a report on Gurney shocking the British racing establishment by leading the International Trophy Race at Silverstone from the start until a rear wheel packed up two laps from the chequered flag.

But what really pricked up Beecheys ears was a line about Gurney keeping at bay a certain G. Hill in a 3.8-litre disc-braked Jaguar. A photo of the Impala leading Hills Jag sealed it for Beechey. Interestingly, Gurney would not race his Impala again, due to bureaucratic problems, and the car was reportedly sold to Laurie ONeil in Australia.

Gurneys car though, is not Beecheys. Gurneys was a two-door SS with a single four-barrel carburettor, making some 50hp less than Beecheys twin carby, pillarless, four-door hardtop. Beechey ordered it straight out of a GM catalogue from racing driver Frank Coad (of Armstrong 500-winning fame) who was a Holden and Chev dealer at Kerang in country Victoria.

Nothing had beaten a Jaguar (for years), Beechey recalls. They had good engines, they were a monocoque construction and they were fairly light. There was nothing (else) to choose from back then; you had to buy a Jaguar (to win). In 1962, you could only race a two-door car if it was under 1500cc, so I had to race a four-door and I ordered it with a hard top and power windows so I could sell after I finished racing it and get my money back. This car cost a lot of money in 1962, £2750. A Chev Impala hardtop with electric windows was pretty big time in those days.

Youve got to remember that buying this car was a very entrepreneurial decision in 1962. It was a huge luxury car but in that era if you were a bookie, wealthy businessman, or a farmer you had a Pontiac Parisienne, a Buick or a Chev and the Impala wasnt considered big in those days. I used to tow it with another Impala, a four-door 61.

Back then the fields werent very big. Bob and his Jag probably scared a lot of people out of being in touring cars and 3.4-litre Jags were just not competitive against Bobs 3.8-litre car. Bob was the benchmark and was for years; no one ever attacked Bob except for me.

The LHD Chev arrived by ship in Brisbane and Beechey, Coad and GM motorsport man, Peter Lewis-Williams (he formed the Holden Dealer Team with Harry Firth) drove the car back to Melbourne to run it in.

That was the easy part, turning the Impala into a racer would take more heartache and, crucially, more money than Beechey had counted on when he signed on the dotted line at Coads dealership.

In fact, it took Beechey six months to get the car running reliably. The big Yank had numerous Achilles heels, ones that wouldnt show up on a US interstate. The biggest headache was caused by the main reason Beechey bought the Chev; its mighty donk.

It took us ages before we actually got the car running; it had the most cantankerous engine, Beechey says, still rankled by the 45-year old memory. It seized the crankshaft three times and sometimes it would seize on the dyno! It was dyno tuned by Jack Wilson whose son Craig now runs Walkinshaw Racing and he used to say, Boss, if it wont live on the dyno it wont live on the track. I was driving for David McKays Scuderia Veloce team and David had to write to Dan Gurney and ask him for advice.

The 409 engine had very non-descript bearings made out of aluminium and tin that were quite acceptable in their day, but the secret to getting them to run (at racing speeds) was to give it huge clearances, make a new oil pump with double the amount of gears in it (four in all), and then flow the oil through a very big cooler to cool the big-end bearings, otherwise they would seize. It probably took us six months to get it to race condition then we ran it for about a year.

We used to run the engine to 7000rpm. The compression ratio was 11:1 and each piston weighed two pounds (900g). We only ever raced it with Chev conrods its got Carillos in it now but we never had conrod problems, only bearing trouble. Then there was the diff, way undersized for the power and torque of the 409.

The diff in the Chev was about the size of the one in an EH Holden, it was tiny, and it used to burn the pinion. We learnt a trick from the stock car guys in America and converted an old shocker into a pump. Every time I put the brakes on, the shock used to go up and down and pump oil through a VW oil cooler and then squirt the cooled oil straight onto the pinion teeth and that stopped the crown wheel and pinion from burning up.

Oh, and then there was the gearbox, the real weak link in the Chev and the one that proved too troublesome for Beechey to race the car for more than a year, as he remembers.

It had the first Borg-Warner four-speed, aluminium-cased gearbox with very thin gears and it wasnt strong enough. If youd put a fresh gearbox in every time you raced you probably would have got away with it but there was no alternative: the engine was too powerful for the box and the car was using money faster than I could make it, thats why I stopped racing it. Ironically, the single-plate clutch never gave trouble.

There is no mention of the Chevs kerb weight in Beecheys catalogue and why should there be? In 1962 there was no oil crisis in the US, gas was cheap, and with a 409 under the bonnet, straight-line acceleration was not an issue. Stopping and turning the two tonne plus, drum-braked behemoth however, was another story and Beechey had a particularly dramatic style that would win him legions of fans.

There was a genuine technique to driving this car fast and I think my style suited this car because I grew up driving big fast American cars, he says. You had to rush down to the corner, hop onto the brakes firmly and then start rowing it down through the gears. As soon as you got it slowed to a reasonable speed you would throw it sideways to wash off more speed then stand on the throttle as soon as she got lined up.

But if you rushed up and braked at 200 yards every time, youd only get about two stops out of the sintered metallic linings before the brakes would be on fire and youd fall off. The brakes werent too bad but they used to give up. We used to weld metal gussets on the brake shoes to make them stronger. And that made the brakes much better.

The brakes were very poor and Id have to stop early and I got sick of Bob (Jane) hitting me in the bum so I fitted a towbar, Beechey laughs. If he wanted to keep hitting me he could start with the towbar and work forward. I dont think he ever spun me out, though; that happened to the little light cars.

Despite the Impalas imposing size, brawny Beechey says it wasnt physically hard to drive, (even though he didnt use the road cars power steering) due to skinny, hard tyres and short races.

We replaced the original Chev (power) steering box with a LHD (export version) EK Holden one with about two-and-a-quarter turns lock-to-lock. Because the R5 racing Dunlops of the day were only narrow, you couldnt turn the steering wheel when the car was stationary but once you got it rolling it was okay. We had a four-point harness that held us in place a bit, but I used to grab a cushion off the lounge at home and tuck myself into that. All my cars had bench seats.

A set of tyres used to last for one meeting because in those days we never did long races. We did a half-hour classic at Calder and at the end of that my car was exhausted and so was Bobbys Jag. Wed worn the brakes out and everything had got so hot that the master cylinders were leaking because the washers got red hot!

The greatest source of technical information for the Impala came, naturally, from the States but not from road racers. It was drag racers and NASCAR teams that really exploited the big block Chev and Beechey picked up a lot of tricks from direct contact with US racers and tuners. One tip involved the suspension.

American stock cars used two shockers per wheel. Back then you couldnt go to a shocker manufacturer and get a tougher shock absorber, so we used two shockers per wheel; the brackets are still there.

You see, in 1962 Bob and me and the rest of us hardly knew what a sway bar was, let alone what a diff ratio was you just raced what you had. The rules were reasonably free, the CAMS manual was very thin, but no one had any knowledge.

Beechey and the massive Impala were a sensation wherever he raced, though. During the first practice session at Catalina (in Katoomba) there was no one left in the pits when I went out because theyd all run to see this big ol thing go round, he grins. (Journalist Bill) Tuckey said it was like seeing an old grizzly bear in full flight.

Two decades later, when Beechey had rebuilt the Chev, he took it to Winton for a shakedown and, guess what? It was still breaking parts, rear wheel bearings. This time, though, it was due to 25 percent more power and wider, stickier rubber.

It was a monster and still is and one of Beecheys favourite pastimes is blowing off Falcon GTHOs. This car used to do the standing quarter in 12.2secs, he boasts. Ive been up against GTHOs on Dutton rallies and this car just chewed them up and spat them out; they werent even in the contest and didnt that break a few hearts.

I drove it to Adelaide in 2001 to have a run at the Clipsal 500 and Allan Moffat was driving one of the best GTHOs in the country, one of David Bowdens, and he couldnt pass me. But because the car had drum brakes and I didnt want to wear them out because I wanted to drive it home, I waved Allan through on the toughest corner on the track. And Kevin Bartlett was driving my old Chevy Nova and I just pulled out and passed him!

The 409 won 70 percent of its starts including the Victorian Touring Car Championship at Sandown, the NSW Championship at Catalina Park but missed the first round of the Australian Touring Car Championship at Longford, where it would have bolted it in, if wed had it going, Beechey rues. Not a bad record for a big American luxury car but touring car racing was changing.

When I switched to the S4 Holden, Bobby had got his Jaguar going faster and it still dominated; the Jags reign only finished when I brought the Mustang out in early-1965. But the Impala was the first of the muscle cars. Hear, hear Norm.

 



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According to another web forum,
the Beechey Impala was originally a left-hand drive car and was converted in Australia.

GM Canada built right-hand drive Chevrolets (and Canadian Pontiacs) for export. AFAIK, the 409 was a US only engine and Canadian built GMs had the small-block V8s or the IL6.

I can guarantee that it had nothing to do with the Australian arm of General Motors... General Motors-Holden...

Quite likely Norm ordered the car through a US dealer, probably a west coast dealer


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There were to my knowledge about four Ausie dealers that imported Canadian and US cars. The latter were sourced from Tarrytown Plant and I think orders were placed with GM Export Sales in New York, possibly with the tentative consent of GM-Holden's.

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I should add that Oshawa built rhd Chevies and Pontiacs to 1969, and Tarrytown some Chevy models to 1964. The latter were all L6 or 283 V-8s...the former L6, 283 and 327.

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What a great story and car.

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Great story!

Kind of surprising the fellow didn't pick a 4 door post, being a more rigid structure.

Thanks for the additional info 427Carl.

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Can hear the tires howling as I'm writing this.

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Also a very nice looking car in those colors.

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OK, who is going to do the research on Dan Gurney's car?

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Did the Gurney 61 Impala ever leave England after its racing period?

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gparis7 wrote:

Did the Gurney 61 Impala ever leave England after its racing period?



Not sure   yet....




From the Internet----


Does anyone know any details on the 1961 Chevy Impala that Dan Gurney drove in a touring car race at Silverstone in May 1961? How stock was it? What color, etc? The only photo I have ever seen of it makes it hard to tell details. Thanks.
Mid to darkish metallic blue with a white flash down each side...

Two-door. 409 engine. Made a great tow car!
Very interesting, now did it become a tow car , and for whom? 
Like I said, it made a great tow car...

Bruce Burr used it for a while to tow Greg Cusack's Brabham and Lotus 23 around. And I guess, at times, the 1100 Elfin too.

But he wasn't the first. The car was sold initially to Laurie O'Neil, Frank Matich's sponsor. He then passed it on to Ron Hodgson before Cusack put it under Burry. I guess Hoddo towed a Cortina around with it... or was it a Mini?
Kinda interesting since the 409 was originally deisgned as a truck motor. :\
Yeah, at the time, of course, it was the biggest engine in the Chevy arsenal and was their race engine, not that Chevy went racing...

I don't know what it was about the car, but the moment I saw it in the pits at Warwick Farm I simply knew it had to be the Gurney race car. A quick conversation with Hoddo confirmed that it was.

A 2-door Chevy was a very rare car in Australia. Almost unseen and unheard of.
The other thing that made it stand out, of course, was that this model was never sold in Australia as an Impala... just as a Belair...

So it was impressively 'different' at first glance.
The Impala project was financed and organised by Dan Gurney. After its success in the International Trophy meeting it was refused an entry for the July empire Trophy meeting in very dubious circumstances leaving a very angry Dan Gurney. He wrote a letter to Autosport about it, including the paragraph:

"I will, in time, get over the fact that I spent a lot of time and money in bringing the Impala to Great Britain, but I will not readily forget the suspicion that there may have been some behind-the-scenes sabotage to prevent the Chevrolet from running at Silverstone."

 



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View Full Version : ChevyTaylor


chevytaylor
06-14-2007, 08:41 AM
Hi all from down under (Australia).

This is a great site and I have been a fan for a long time. The information that fellow 409ers have shared has proven to be very helpful and informative. Hopefully by joining this site I might be able to contribute and assist other members in some way as they have me in the past.

The cars in my family include some rare Chevys and they all run the famous 409. My father has a 1962 two door post 380hp 409 Belair. Also Dan Gurneys 1961 409 bubbletop race car. My brother has a 1962 two door post 409 Biscayne and I have a 1962 409 Belair bubbletop.

:cheers

cheap1
06-14-2007, 08:51 AM
Welcome to the site ChevyTaylor. I think I can speak for everyone when I say that you have got to post some pics. Sounds like you guys from down under really know how to ride:beerbang There are alot of very knowledgable guys here There are also some guys like myself that just shut up and listen. Once again, welcome

Ronnie Russell
06-14-2007, 10:42 AM
Welcome chevytaylor, Very impressive car collection. we are looking forward to hearing and seeing more. :)

UK Racer
06-14-2007, 12:44 PM
The cars in my family include some rare Chevys and they all run the famous 409. My father has a 1962 two door post 380hp 409 Belair. Also Dan Gurneys 1961 409 bubbletop race car. My brother has a 1962 two door post 409 Biscayne and I have a 1962 409 Belair bubbletop.

:cheers

Wow, you have the '61 car Gurney raced in the UK?! :eek:
I second the request for pictures and info.
I'm building a '64 to race in historic events like Goodwood Revival but the original '61 Gurney car would trump that! What condition is it in? :cool:
:bow :clap

chevytaylor
06-15-2007, 09:50 PM
:) Wow, you have the '61 car Gurney raced in the UK?! :eek:
I second the request for pictures and info.
I'm building a '64 to race in historic events like Goodwood Revival but the original '61 Gurney car would trump that! What condition is it in? :cool:
:bow :clap

My father has owned the Dan Gurney 409 race car for more than 22 years. He used to drop me and my friends off to school way back when. Man, what a ride! No wonder I couldn't concentrate on my school work. Ill never forget the sound that thing made being worked through the gears. At the time the bubbletop had a crate NOS QC 1964 3844422 block under the hood. From that time on I was HOOKED and severely struck down with 409 fever.

The car is in great condition and currently is in storage awaiting a complete restoration with the original 1961 3795623 409 block, aluminium T10 and P case posi intact.

The first Australian owner purchased it directly from Dan Gurney at the Silverstone race track in England, bringing it to Australia with the intention to race it here down under. It wasn't to be: it had two doors not four, and the 409 Impala saw a lot of street duty towing other race cars.

In the seventies the original 623 1961 409 engine was replaced with a 283 small block. In the early eighties the 283 was replaced with an NOS still in the crate QC 1964 422 409. Up until recently it was thought that the original 623 409 engine was lost in a ski boat at the bottom of a deep harbor. The boat part was true but it was not at the bottom of any harbor. With the help of some die hard 409 friends here in Australia we have FOUND the original 1961 623 409 with the cars VIN # stamped into the front of the block. At this stage we are gathering all the relevant information we can, to preserve the Gurney 409s place in Chevrolets colorful racing history.

Whats also interesting is that back in January 1961, Dan Gurney had both Bill Thomas and Bill Fowler involved with this cars race setup. In testing, Dan broke the Riverside raceway lap record held by Dave McDonalds Corvette with the mighty 409. Bill Fowler who was at the time on his honeymoon DROVE the car from LA to New York where it was put on a ship bound for England to compete at the Silverstone May 6, 1961 race.

As you can see, the car has a very interesting past and is believed to actually be the very first factory 409 car to roll out of the LA assembly plant. Ill try and dig up some more pix.:)

rstreet
06-15-2007, 11:48 PM
Great story on a piece of history. I'm sure someone will want to write a story on the finding of the motor. Please let us know how things work out.
rstreet

jim_ss409
06-29-2007, 10:38 AM
:)

My father has owned the Dan Gurney 409 race car for more than 22 years. He used to drop me and my friends off to school way back when. Man, what a ride! No wonder I couldn't concentrate on my school work. Ill never forget the sound that thing made being worked through the gears. At the time the bubbletop had a crate NOS QC 1964 3844422 block under the hood. From that time on I was HOOKED and severely struck down with 409 fever.

The car is in great condition and currently is in storage awaiting a complete restoration with the original 1961 3795623 409 block, aluminium T10 and P case posi intact.

The first Australian owner purchased it directly from Dan Gurney at the Silverstone race track in England, bringing it to Australia with the intention to race it here down under. It wasn't to be: it had two doors not four, and the 409 Impala saw a lot of street duty towing other race cars.

In the seventies the original 623 1961 409 engine was replaced with a 283 small block. In the early eighties the 283 was replaced with an NOS still in the crate QC 1964 422 409. Up until recently it was thought that the original 623 409 engine was lost in a ski boat at the bottom of a deep harbor. The boat part was true but it was not at the bottom of any harbor. With the help of some die hard 409 friends here in Australia we have FOUND the original 1961 623 409 with the cars VIN # stamped into the front of the block. At this stage we are gathering all the relevant information we can, to preserve the Gurney 409s place in Chevrolets colorful racing history.

Whats also interesting is that back in January 1961, Dan Gurney had both Bill Thomas and Bill Fowler involved with this cars race setup. In testing, Dan broke the Riverside raceway lap record held by Dave McDonalds Corvette with the mighty 409. Bill Fowler who was at the time on his honeymoon DROVE the car from LA to New York where it was put on a ship bound for England to compete at the Silverstone May 6, 1961 race.

As you can see, the car has a very interesting past and is believed to actually be the very first factory 409 car to roll out of the LA assembly plant. Ill try and dig up some more pix.:)

I was just wondering,,, is this original engine back in the car now?:scratch

tripower
06-29-2007, 11:30 AM
Hey chevytaylor, Welcome to the site. Sounds like you have some neat stuff down there...:cool:

Tom Kochtanek
06-29-2007, 04:26 PM
Wow, what a great story, was really glad to hear about this. Like others, I had heard stories about this vehicle. Great news that it is still intact!

Quite a honeymoon ride, from LA to the East coast! I wonder how that might have affected his relationship with the new bride? I thought I did some things wrong on my honeymoon, but this one tops my chicanery :).

So, what did go "down under" into the harbor? Just the boat? If it were the 623 engine I would have put a wet suit on and "raised the Titanic" to get it :).

Thanks for sharing your story, great collection!

TomK

chevytaylor
06-30-2007, 11:48 AM
Hi guys, thanks for your warm welcome.


Finding the Gurney block is an incredible story in it's self.

Luckily, the ski boat that the 61 409 race engine once resided in did not sink and was never at the bottom of the harbuor, it turned out to be a thirty year old urban myth.

The original 3795623 409 block dated K1660 is now back with the car. The crank # is 0-191561. The Dan Gurney 1961 409 Chevy race car is currently in storage awaiting restoration.



The Dan Gurney 1961 409 Chevy race car is currently in storage awaiting restoration.

Welcome aboard!

Great information. Glad to hear the car will be restored!


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1961 - Chevy Impala
1961 - Chevy Impala (British Saloon Race)


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Fantastic, what a story!

Thanks for all your hard work researching this Carl2!

What a mover and shaker Gurney was!

And what a bunch of Chevy nuts down under.

Terrific!

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