If a GM product had an msrp today of $22250.00 today, what would a good negotiator expect to pay? I am aware that there are a million variables, but I'd still be very interested to hear the varying opinions. I am just taliking msrp and none of the other fees. Any idea what the invoice price might be on that amount? Being my first time with a new one (bought many used from dealerships) I need to know that I am getting fair treatment, or at least feel like I am.(I do have factory discounts to apply already. 1500). tks!
Thanks for the warning. Thats one part of the process I wasnt expecting. I thought the financing was done, once we agree on a deal. I should have known better ;). I wouldn't have thought I'd get anywhere near 10%, based on what I've found. I may have found mostly factory propaganda, who knows. 2011 is the first year for the model in Canada, and it seems to be marketed as underpriced for the value, I assume the Camaro is more of a niche. I hope I am wrong and I could even get 8%! My impression is that the days of massive deals are over, and never existed with this model anyway. I dont want to play the 'walk out the door' game to find out where the bottom line is. I'll pay a fair price, I just dont want to make his top 10 sucker list. Thanks again!
oh yea......I'm not looking forward to the Business Manager, but if he knew me, he wouldnt be looking forward to it either, so I'm good. Mudflaps were mysteriously mentioned today in one of my calls as being on($91)and locking lugs ($205), but that was from the salesman, they had to find the car elsewhere for the options we wanted. Fat free donuts and a lobster dinner?
-- Edited by Turn2Stone on Monday 14th of February 2011 06:38:35 PM
'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.
Come in May to the northshore/Gulf Of St. Lawrence 500 metres from my house.
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Prince Edward Island
'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.
Apparently they had to search outside their dealership to find ltz turbo white, leather and loaded. It apparently already has the nuts and flaps when they called to say they have found it. As for the lobster, I was thinking of me. I'll tell ya if the boogieman gets me on 'signing day'. I want the car, so we'll see.
in 2005 I was looking to buy a new V6 Honda Accord Coupe. I knew exactly what I wanted, and went to Honda's website to attain the MSRP.
I called a few dealerships, told them what I wanted (including mud flaps, locking lug nuts and a bottle of touch-up paint), and told them to give me their best price. 1st dealership had a high price. 2nd dealership a half hour south of Calgary (of which I'd bought a new car 15 years earlier) wouldn't give me a price over the phone, fearing I'd get a Calgary dealer to match it. The 3rd dealer, which is 2 hrs SE of Calgary, beat everyone's price by $500. They waived the financing admin charge, and included a full tank of gas. I took the Greyhound there for $35, and drove the car home.
I told the dealerships that this is my game, and they'd need to play by my rules.
Funny thing is, the car I got came from the dealer that wouldn't give me a price. Looks like he missed out.
Give that method a try, it worked for me.
-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 12:15:39 AM
in 2005 I was looking to buy a new V6 Honda Accord Coupe. I knew exactly what I wanted, and went to Honda's website to attain the MSRP.
I called a few dealerships, told them what I wanted (including mud flaps, locking lug nuts and a bottle of touch-up paint), and told them to give me their best price. 1st dealership had a high price. 2nd dealership a half hour south of Calgary (of which I'd bought a new car 15 years earlier) wouldn't give me a price over the phone, fearing I'd get a Calgary dealer to match it. The 3rd dealer, which is 2 hrs SE of Calgary, beat everyone's price by $500. They waived the financing admin charge, and included a full tank of gas. I took the Greyhound there for $35, and drove the car home.
I told the dealerships that this is my game, and they'd need to play by my rules.
Funny thing is, the car I got came from the dealer that wouldn't give me a price. Looks like he missed out.
Give that method a try, it worked for me.
-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 12:15:39 AM
Clint, because I know you I have to respond to your approach for your purchase. I had a friend who did the same thing here when buying a pickup and got it in Penticton, an hour away. The first couple times when it was due for its servicing the local dealer didn't want anything to do with him so he had to go down there for the servicing to keep his warranty intact. Later he was able to have it serviced locally but when he had engine problems later they didn't go to bat for him at all. All for $500. My neighbour works at GM here and knows my friend who did this and he said as soon as they see the out of town sticker they don't give a rip about any service for them compared to there own guys. I buy locally and I also get to build them houses.
I look at it this way. I want to frame a house here for a guy for lets say $25,000. But he gets 12 prices and finds a guy in Salmon Arm who does the same quality of work but will do it for $500 less. There's $25,000 that doesn't get spent locally and there's probably a better chance if something comes up later that needs some fixing I will be able to take care of him. If you are in business there are a couple ways of looking at this. I realize this is a little off topic but I think it relates to buying a new vehicle. I've bought 4 new ones from my local GM dealer and they have treated me fair and royally. Had a little miscommunication on one that I ordered and they had a contest a month or so later and I just happened to win the draw. It was a limo ride to the airport and then off to Vancouver and then picked up by a limo and taken to our hotel. First night was a Canuck's game, second night a front row on the court seats for a Grizzlie's game, third night the Moscow ballet for the wife's taste, a special supper at the hotel, and a $1000 cash to have some fun with. The draw in my opinion was a complete fix but they take care of their own and I try to do the same in my business.
Jerel, I agree with your thoughts on this matter but here is a strange curve-ball that I encountered when I bought my G8. What happens to the guy who buys a car from a dealership that GM closed the dealership? I shopped around Calgary for a deal and found that there was no deal to be had on a G8 due to the demand at the time (had to order). So, if I wanted one, sticker price minus GM discounts of $6500. My choice of dealer ended up being based on how willing the dealer was to find the exact car I wanted with some rare options. Less than a year later the dealership is closed and now who am I supposed to deal with? All the other dealers will do what they have to but they don't like it that I bought my car from someone else. Not a "preferred" customer! What a load of crap!!!! Not my fault that the selling dealer had it's dealership closed by GM. And the other problem I have is that the GM dealer in my town never sold Pontiac, so I would have never gone there in the first place.
And as Carl has said, avoid the business or finance manager if you can. When I bought my car, the finance manager was really upset that I didn't want undercoating and all the other stuff they tried to push on me. Even more upset when I said no to any of their financing options. All I ask for is the final price and I will pay it the way I choose, thanks. So, when delivery day comes, I tell them I won't take delivery on the car because they have installed the front license plate holder on it and being an Albertan, I like the clean look of no front plate. Apparently, the car came from Vancouver and the first dealer had put it on. My salesman was exceptional and had the plate holder removed and the body work done to fill the holes at no cost to me. When all was said and done, the salesman admitted that they didn't make much on this sale and they were hoping I would have my car serviced at their dealership. No problem. Before I left, I ordered SLP headers, high flow cats, Magnaflow exhaust, and a cold air intake which would all be installed in their shop. 2 weeks later, they installed everything and they were just as happy as I was. 6 months later GM closes their doors......grrrrrrrr!
-- Edited by 67SD396 on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 02:22:13 AM
I have controlled the show so far. (at least in my mind) I am doing my negotiating from home, they are trying hard to get me to follow their path, but it makes me nervous. I started at a dealership in Moncton, but with the specific car requested, apparently there is only one in the Maritimes of that model, color etc.. No offence to car salesman, but I am skeptical of every word they say. If I pay $500 more than the next guy, I would hardly care. But, if I found out that I paid $2500 more than I could have, I wont sleep right for a decade. I am stilll bitter over a dealership deal 9 years ago. All I need is the perception of getting a good deal. Perception is reality. Thanks for the comments and tips. Hopefully we can close it today.
No you are right Mike, there are all types of dealers out there. I have dealt with both GM dealers here in town and consider them both top notch. As far as knowing who will be around in a year from now that is almost impossible to predict. I know there are guys who will drive a thousand miles to save a hundred and that's okay, I try to get the best prices I can too. I used to always just buy North American manufactured vehicles too but my wife now drives a Mazda 3 and after test driving some other cars it was an easy choice. Goes against my grain but it's from a local dealer and hopefully our money will circulate here and keep the ball rolling.
Anyhow Stone, I think you are buying a car at a good time when most dealers will be bending over backwards to make a deal happen for you. Good luck.
Jerel I hope you are right. I am getting the impression that I could get an extreme bargain on almost any 2010 model and even a few 2011's, but the Cruze is being marketed as most bang for the buck from GM in a long time. I take that with a grain of salt, and proceed. Its all speculation on my part. I have been going back and forth this morning.....my last email was asking for the end of the negotiations. I asked for their bottom line (I'm sure it varies from buyer to buyer), I mentioned that I wont be counter-offering his answer, I'll either take it or leave it. I also mentioned that I'll be replacing another car (its true) in the near future, and if I leave feeling good about this one, of course I'll come back looking for another, I didnt use that info as a tactic, it is a fact, of course if I have regrets, I'll go elsewhere. So far I am impressed with the treatment, but man I hate the process. I suppose it has evolved to where it is for a reason.
All I can say about negotiations with car dealers is do your homework.
Know what the options are that you want on the car. If they offer a model with something you don't want, too bad. Tell them you wioll wait for the car to come in then. If they push the issue, walk away.
Know what the total DOLLAR amount you want to spend is, not the monthly payment. All dealers will try to sell you on a longer term to fit that monthly payment amount or will tell you it is only $XX more per month... Tell them you want the best deal they will give you. Period. In writing.
Do not buy any extended warranty policies.
Do not get "upside down" protection on the note.
Turn a deaf ear to the charmers that will try to sell you everything under the sun.
Do not sign anything the first time you talk to the dealer. Don't be in a hurry to answer their calls, either.
Most of all, be prepared to walk away. Tell them you have a perfectly good car outside, at home, in the garage... Tell them you WANT a new car but you don't NEED a new car.
Practice these phrases...
"Sorry, but your dollars just aren't making sense..."
Chuckle and say "Yeah, okay..." and push your chair back.
You - "I think you can do better than that. I already have better offers..." Dealer - "Yeah, from who?" You - "Sorry, I don't play that game... Let's see your best offer in writing. I got others in writing..."
The part about dealers not servicing their own? I didn't buy my HHR from the Chevrolet dealer in town but they have been awesome for any warranty work. If they give you crap, tell them the warranty is good everywhere... Don't be afraid to call Corporate. If they are going to be that pissy then they should have been more willing to play ball... Tell the service guys to go bust the sales guys onions...
I love wheeling and dealing. I learned it from my redheaded wife.... I remember her dealing for her Mustang GT and the guy wasn't working hard enough to make the deal.... I laughed out loud and stood up and told the guy, "You are on your own brother... I have been down this path before and you won't win, trust me.! You really need to work on the bottom line price of the car to make it work."
She won.
__________________
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter
in 2005 I was looking to buy a new V6 Honda Accord Coupe. I knew exactly what I wanted, and went to Honda's website to attain the MSRP.
I called a few dealerships, told them what I wanted (including mud flaps, locking lug nuts and a bottle of touch-up paint), and told them to give me their best price. 1st dealership had a high price. 2nd dealership a half hour south of Calgary (of which I'd bought a new car 15 years earlier) wouldn't give me a price over the phone, fearing I'd get a Calgary dealer to match it. The 3rd dealer, which is 2 hrs SE of Calgary, beat everyone's price by $500. They waived the financing admin charge, and included a full tank of gas. I took the Greyhound there for $35, and drove the car home.
I told the dealerships that this is my game, and they'd need to play by my rules.
Funny thing is, the car I got came from the dealer that wouldn't give me a price. Looks like he missed out.
Give that method a try, it worked for me.
-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Tuesday 15th of February 2011 12:15:39 AM
Clint, because I know you I have to respond to your approach for your purchase. I had a friend who did the same thing here when buying a pickup and got it in Penticton, an hour away. The first couple times when it was due for its servicing the local dealer didn't want anything to do with him so he had to go down there for the servicing to keep his warranty intact. Later he was able to have it serviced locally but when he had engine problems later they didn't go to bat for him at all. All for $500. My neighbour works at GM here and knows my friend who did this and he said as soon as they see the out of town sticker they don't give a rip about any service for them compared to there own guys. I buy locally and I also get to build them houses.
I look at it this way. I want to frame a house here for a guy for lets say $25,000. But he gets 12 prices and finds a guy in Salmon Arm who does the same quality of work but will do it for $500 less. There's $25,000 that doesn't get spent locally and there's probably a better chance if something comes up later that needs some fixing I will be able to take care of him. If you are in business there are a couple ways of looking at this. I realize this is a little off topic but I think it relates to buying a new vehicle. I've bought 4 new ones from my local GM dealer and they have treated me fair and royally. Had a little miscommunication on one that I ordered and they had a contest a month or so later and I just happened to win the draw. It was a limo ride to the airport and then off to Vancouver and then picked up by a limo and taken to our hotel. First night was a Canuck's game, second night a front row on the court seats for a Grizzlie's game, third night the Moscow ballet for the wife's taste, a special supper at the hotel, and a $1000 cash to have some fun with. The draw in my opinion was a complete fix but they take care of their own and I try to do the same in my business.
No problem Jerel. This method worked for me, but may not work for everyone. I don't allow the dealer to install their advertising decal on the rear of the car, and I've never had a problem getting my Honda's (either my 90 Accord bought in High River, or the 2005 bought in Brooks) serviced here in Calgary. Funny thing is, the dealers make way more money servicing the cars than they do selling them.
I've found the local sales guys to be somewhat too greasy for me, trying to sell me demo models for more than I paid for my new one, throwing in a years worth of oil changes that they claim has a $2000 value, etc.
Last year when my nephew was buying a Honda Fit, I had him call around. As the cars were in high demand, basically each dealer stuck to MSRP. That makes sense.
The best I could get was $850 which was about 55% of the "dealership profit", which still put the msrp above the loaded ltz due to a $1200 unwanted sunroof. I asked him to order me the exact one I wanted, and I'd save money. Suddenly another one might be available in the morning. Did I mention that I hate this process. I feel like cattle, but I wont cave. I appreciate the tips, and I bet this thread will be referred to in the future. I told him that if we have to settle for 2nd choice for color or interior, I'd just order and wait 12 weeks.
When it comes to servicing any dealer can service your new vehicle. HOWEVER there is a benefit of sticking to your selling dealer if at all possible and this is why: Say your power window motor craps out at 70k (and the warranty ended at 60). Dealers are empowered to offer warranty beyond 60k (usually up to 80k) however they usually only reserve that privilege for customers who purchased the car from them. Did you do all the factory (not dealer) recommended maintenance? They look at this as well and will often offer goodwill warranty for that power window. Often they can also offer warranty assistance (say 50/50) well beyond 80k. I've seen cars 6 years old get some help from the dealer on large repairs.
Like I said, I bought my truck from the same dealerhip. Including my 2001 Intrigue "clunker" (not!) I got 15,500 off the sticker. I also traded my 03 GMC 2500 HD in on it, and settled on a deal of just over 30 on the road for an almost loaded 2011 5.3 LTZ Silverado. ( no sunroof, no 6.2 400 horse engine)My negotiation was that I really didn't need to buy new, it depended on the deal we could work. What pushed me in this direction to begin with was the HUGE incentives being offered, otherwise I'd still be driving my '03.
Oh Carl, the business manager didn't squeeze a penny out of me .
I was offered $7500 + factory discounts off of a truck, and those deals are still there, not so for the Cruze. Of the 15 Carl listed, only the bottom one fits the bill, and it listed even higher. Even the $850 offered works out to $350.00 in the end when you use dealership math. I am not nearly as motivated today, and I wont be rushing to restart negotiations. In the end, I will accept the $850 (using real math) if the car is exactly what we want with nothing else unless its free. I dont think I'll do any better, and I hate the process. I mentioned Carl said I could do better, he said Carl? Who's Carl. I said Carl is his last name, 427 is his first name, after the awkward silence, he just carried on as if I didnt say that. You should have your people call and sort him out!
- thanks to all who shared experiences and tips. The whole process seems like an insult to anyones intelligence. I'd prefer a price tag like a telelvision. Take it or leave it or wait for a sale.
-- Edited by Turn2Stone on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 06:49:35 AM
'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.
Here's how it started. Wife saw an ad for a Kia Rio for $9999 new, and said its cute. I said pick a color and I'll get you one. Once I drove it, I wouldnt buy it, I recommended an Aveo just because its a GM, once I drove it I wouldnt buy it. I drove a Cruze and it really does feel, look , and sound like its in the next class, similar to Buick Regal, but much less. The primary factor I guess that the wife likes it, and of all the cars I tested, its the only one even slightly exciting. It has all the current electronic gadgets, blueotooth, phone, onstar etcc.. There are no other cars in this class(that I know of) that offer the connectivity and gadgets. The hydraulic engine mounts, and sound dampening equals the Lexus apparently. I believed it, after a test drive.
Now that I've found out that there are no real deals on a Cruze, I'm going to research a Corolla. I will still buy the Cruze if things go my way in the next 48 hours, but I'm not stuck on it, after all it is unproven, and nobody knows what resale might be. I rent new cars several times a year, always semi-luxury (IMO) cars, this is the only car so far that gives me the same quality feel.
Funny how 9999 can become 27000 when you are paying it, but that never happens when you are receiving it?
-- Edited by Turn2Stone on Wednesday 16th of February 2011 07:25:32 AM
If you are willing to pay over $20,000 have you considered a used G8? The G8 fits all of what you mentioned plus it has way more room and it's a Pontiac (Aussie Poncho). They drive like a small car and the V8 car gets a real world 26 - 28 mpg! The V6 is likely a bit better. Just a thought.... Here's a couple in your province.
