Engine indicission

ak 67sd · Poncho Master!

RE: Engine indicission

Hegedus1000 · Member

Thanks for the reply

I plan on building the 327 to about the 500hp mark. What I'm worried about is if the the two speed powerglide will have launch off the line. The car is mostly going to be used for local 100ft shootout's, taking the boys out golfing, and going to the lake.

Paulish · Guru

I built up my 454 for less then that 383 cost. Buildable 454s are cheep and all over the place. Way more torque then a small block and they just sound cooler. biggrin

Way easier to get 500hp out of a big block and still have very nice street manners. Dont need a really radical cam to pull it off.

If your worried about getting off the line look at your rear end gears too.

66 Beau · Poncho Master!

I don't want to start an argument, but I disagree with the comment that an OD tranny will not provide a performance upgrade. It depends on what you call performance.

First gear ratios:
Powerglide: 1.76:1
700R4: 3.06:1

A 700R4 with 3.73 rear end and a moderate 327 should break the tires loose. If the tires are spinning, doesn't matter how many more horses you have, you aren't going to go any faster.

I understand that the OD tranny won't add more horses, and it won't cut 1/4 mile times by much (once you're out of the hole, the extra horses can be put to work), but for everyday driving and off-the-line performance, it will be a big improvement over the powerglide.

If you really want 500HP, I agree with Paulish and the 454 option. It wouldn't take much to get 500 HP out of a 454 and it would be a much more reliable (and cheaper) set up than a 500 HP small block.

From my experience (admittedly limited as far as drag racing) 100 foot shootouts are usually won by the car that can hook-up best...

ak 67sd · Poncho Master!

Just to go back to my OD tranny comments, I wasn't comparing it to the glide but to a TH350/400... I will stand my comments that an OD is a waste of money for performance, especially if you don't have deep pockets to bulletproof it. I was considering improvements in quarter mile ET vs. cost (the OD isn't helping there, especially at 500hp!) when I considering the term "performance", not top speed or mileage. If you are comparing the 700r4 to any tranny, look at the spread between the gearing on the 1-2 shift (not just the first gear)...that will hurt a 327.

I 100% agree, the 100' shootout is going to be about traction, and 60' times (which requires more thought into suspension than HP)... a 500hp bbc is going to be hard to hook, 500HP anything is going to be hard to hook on the street!! to achieve 500hp, will be a lot more streetable (and cheaper given driveability) with a BBC than the 327 (i.e. exactly what Paulish said)! You will definitely want an OD tranny to cruise to the lake because that 327 is going to want 4:56 gears, and a 4000 stall...(budget $2500 on a tranny) Probably better to aim for an honest 425HP out of an SBC and you will have pretty fast street car, (low 12's, maybe high 11's). If you really want 500HP, then best to not restrict yourself to small CI, get a 454 and stroke it too! You will probably get the bug for more power and the BBC will be a better platform to continue onward...

ak

66 Beau · Poncho Master!

I think we're in total agreement ak. I was comparing to the glide because that's what he's looking to replace.

One nice thing about the 383's - they make great torque for a small block. I'm not a drag racer, but for the "fun to drive" feel on cruise night, I'll take big torque over big HP any day!

I know - a BB will give you both! But at $1.20+ a litre, those 454's can cause some serious pain.

Wes

Paulish · Guru

66 Beau wrote:

I know - a BB will give you both! But at $1.20+ a litre, those 454's can cause some serious pain.

If I was worried about gas milage id buy a honda.

ak 67sd · Poncho Master!

Sadly my daily driver is a Jeep, and it drinks all the fuel someone with a prius saves on my behalf... :)

Actually, just because i like discussion... I'd venture a guess that a 500hp SBC is going to burn more fuel than a 500hp BBC -both having similar 1/4 mile et. My reasoning (as mentioned earlier) a 500hp BBC can be more driveable, less gearing, more tame camshaft, you can even have a nicely built quadrajet on it for up to 550hp! (with proven no dyno losses compared to holley, etc). A 500HP 327 is going to be a 4000-8000 rpm engine, lacking torque (which is kind of good for the street), needing big gears, big convertor, and probably a nice stinky double pumper in the 8-900cfm range...

My tired 350, which was about 425-450hp (ran 12.45 thought the exhaust, timeslips are the real dyno #'s!) was a piggy on fuel, if I was heavy on the pedal, I can only guess at maybe 4-5mpg. I never calculated it, cause if i cared about mileage i'd buy a honda!!

The car did surprise several guys with BBs on the street, and I got spanked a couple of times too... I knew which cars ran 9's, 10's and low 11's so there was never any point bringing a knife to a gun fight! One that i remember was lining up against a skylark with 4 guys in it, he left me in the dust...found out later he's a really good 455 buick builder, the car hooked like crazy...it was a low 11s car... In light to light races a fox body 'stang with 350hp will outrun someone with a big car and 150 more hp!

ak

jim_ss409 · Guru

The 327 is a great engine and you can get 500hp out of one with the right parts but it won't be very streetable.
To make that kind of power with that small of an engine you'll have to rev it pretty high and it won't idle at any less than a thousand rpm. It also won't have any off idle torque so it will require a high stall convertor.
The fuel mileage will be poor and you probably won't have enough vacuum to run power brakes.
Don't get me wrong, it would be a cool engine to have in something like a straight axle 55 Chevy with a four speed and it would sound really mean but it wouldn't be a comfortable engine to live with everyday.

I tend to agree with the guys that say go with a stroker smallblock or a big block if you want to have 500hp.
A 500hp 454 would have a nice muscle car rumble at an idle and have plenty of low rpm power.
500hp is a lot for a 327 but no problem at all for a 454.

65sssd · Poncho Master!

I think you should sell me that SD and go get a Camaro with a ladder bar set up. Or at least smooth the trim and sell it to me because that stuff is heavy, especially the rocker chrome. Just joking!! Well I will take the rocker chrome but as for the motor build a 496 because it is the biggist bang for the buck and it will bend your car in half.

Yarrowman · Veteran Member

I agree with the big block avenue, I have a 454 in my 69 Beaumont with 4:11 gears that puts out a honest 450 HP all day long and the only problem you will find is having to buy lots of rear tires!!!
if you are going to go through the motions of changing a motor nothing beats cubic inches.

good luck

Brad

Paulish · Guru

Yup...and you can pull it off on the cheep. 2 bolt mains are fine, gm thumb con rods and cast crank are all up to the task.

My motor was from a 73 pick-up. I went to a higher compression piston and had my iron heads ported and cut for bigger valves. Including a hydro roller cam set from comp i think i have just a bit over $4000 in to my motor.
Although I know the owner of the machine shop that built it and he gave me a killer deal.

496 is a diffrent beast though. If your shotting for a LOT more hp then 500 start looking at forged stroker kits but I thing id look for a block with 4 bolkt mains too.

-- Edited by Paulish on Saturday 19th of March 2011 09:10:02 AM

65wagon · Poncho Master!

most of you know my opinion on the old school so i wont coment. numbers not withstanding in a bigger heavier car a 327 has to work harder, fortunetly you have a you have a 3400 pound light wieght so i would say with the right tweaking you can get good miliage and some but thats only one opinion