1980 Pontiac Trans Am

trans man · Newbie

1980 Pontiac Trans Am

80GPLJ · Guru

Check under the rear seat for sheet from assembly line, I think

Pontiacanada · A Poncho Legend!

I found mine hog-ringed under the rear seat. usually they are tucked in the springs.

Some people have found them under the front buckets or inside the glove box area. They have also been found tucked up around the steering column or inside the back panels of the bucket seats.

80GPLJ · Guru

any pics?

67Poncho · Uber Guru

I have had them on top of the fuel tank as well.........

unburt · Guru

Being the owner of a 78 i have talked to other F body owners and under the rear seat is No 1 spot then the buckets and the rear upper seat divider seems to be the deal. I have had my car apart i didnt find a scrap of paper so who knows what you may find or not.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

There is no requirement to put the sheet in the car. It's just a scap of paper at one point and some workers got in the habit of putting it in the car. You are just as likely to find one as not.

69camarox11 · Addicted!

80GPLJ wrote:
any pics?

I don't have a 1980, how about a 1981 turbo

Sometimes they are also behind the back of the top rear seat cushion, behind the kick panels, on top of the glove box and on Van Nuys cars are found on top of the gas tank like old Corvettes.

Gary, 69CamaroX11

69camarox11 · Addicted!

Here is a 1975 pic for Todd if he is watching. biggrin

Todd, are you here? smile

59poncho · Poncho Master!

mine was under the drivers seat when i had my trans-am.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

I'm here. If the car was sold here you can get your build info from GM Vintage Vehicle Service. If not, you can get PHS docs. I've ordered mine from GM Canada (and looks like I'll have to wait to get them due to the mail strike!) and plan to get the PHS docs. My goal is to hopefully find out how many 4 speed Esprits were made..

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Send him a few more bucks and they will send it by fax and follow up with the package once the mail strike is settled.

69camarox11 · Addicted!

69Laurentian wrote:
I'm here. If the car was sold here you can get your build info from GM Vintage Vehicle Service. If not, you can get PHS docs. I've ordered mine from GM Canada (and looks like I'll have to wait to get them due to the mail strike!) and plan to get the PHS docs. My goal is to hopefully find out how many 4 speed Esprits were made..

Hello Todd,

In 1975 GM did not put Muncie 4-speeds in any cars. Instead they used the Borg-Warner Super T-10 4-speed in higher performance models, both small blocks and big blocks. They used the Saginaw 4-speed in lower performance models.The Chevrolet Corvette was the only one to get the M21 close ratio Warner w/L82 350/205HP and also had the M20 wide ratio Warner in 350/205HP & 350/165HP.

The 1975 Pontiac 4-speed Firebirds had the M20 wide ratio Super T-10 Warner in the 400ci V8 and 455ci V8; also had the M20 wide ratio Saginaw in the 350ci V8 models.

There were 20,826 1975 Pontiac Firebird Esprit models produced and of those 4,841 had the M20 wide ratio Saginaw 4-speed transmission and 15,985 had TH350 A/T (no breakdown on engines used). There were 26,417 1975 Pontiac Firebird TransAms produced with the 400ci V8 with 6,140 having M20 Warner 4-speed and 20,277 had automatic transmissions. Other 1975 Firebirds produced included base Firebird 22,293, Firebird Formula 13,670 and Firebird TransAM 27,274 (857 w/455ci V8).

These facts and figures from:

http://www.transamworld.com/bird-prod-numbers.php

http://www.2gta.com/1975ta.html#prod

Gary

-- Edited by 69camarox11 on Saturday 4th of June 2011 02:56:33 PM

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

Wow good stuff

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Thanks Gary. I must be blind because I have been on both those sites and still can't find Esprit 4 speed numbers.

69camarox11 · Addicted!

69Laurentian wrote:
Thanks Gary. I must be blind because I have been on both those sites and still can't find Esprit 4 speed numbers.

Todd you are not really blind, I must confess I cheated a little in order to give you an approximation of 1975 Esprit 4-speed numbers.

The sites did state that:

1) Of the 26,417 1975 Trans Am produced with the 400ci V8, 6,140 of those had M20 wide ratio Borg-Warner Super T-10 4-speed transmission.

2) That the 1975 Esprits were available with the M20 wide ratio Saginaw 4-speed transmission.

3) While no actual true numbers were given as to how many 1975 Esprits were actually produced with above said 4-speed transmission, they did state that the 1975 Trans Am and other 1975 Firebird models, base Firebird, Formula and the Esprit were produced with approximately 1/4 having 4-speeds and the other 3/4 with automatic transmissions.

4) The 4,841 1975 Esprits with 4-speeds and 15,985 with TH350 automatic transmissions were mathematically interpolated/or extrapolated by myself.

CONCLUSION: We still do not truly, actually know the exact, precise number of 1975 Esprits produced with 4-speeds; but I really believe it is indeed close to about 4.800.

I will let you know if I do find a factual number in writing somewhere.

Gary

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Ah I see. However I feel the number of 4 speed Esprits would be lower as this model was not really geared towards a performance oriented driver.

69camarox11 · Addicted!

69Laurentian wrote:
Ah I see. However I feel the number of 4 speed Esprits would be lower as this model was not really geared towards a performance oriented driver.

The 1975 Firebird Esprit 350ci 4bbl V8 had 7.6:1 Compression and 175 Net Horsepower@4,400 RPM.

Here is a window sticker for a USA 1975 Pontiac Firebird Esprit with the 350ci 4BBL V8 Engine and 4 Spd Manual Transmission; the MSRP was $3,957.80 US. Most of the books published state the base Firebird Esprit 6 cyl. MSRP was $3,958 and the Firebird Esprit V8 MSRP was $4,088.

Here are the 1975 General Motors of Canada Prices. The MSRP for a Canadian 1975 Pontiac Firebird Esprit was $4,663 CDN.

Let us not forget the Canadian 1980 Pontiac Firebird TransAm MSRP was $8,457 CDN. Here are the 1980 General Motors of Canada prices for Trans Man-William Osborne.

Just some more food for thought!!!

Gary

-- Edited by 69camarox11 on Sunday 5th of June 2011 06:50:45 PM

-- Edited by 69camarox11 on Sunday 5th of June 2011 06:55:01 PM

-- Edited by 69camarox11 on Sunday 5th of June 2011 06:59:10 PM

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Here's the bill of sale from my car:

Mine came in at $6112 before freight and PDI.

69camarox11 · Addicted!

69Laurentian wrote:
Here's the bill of sale from my car:
Mine came in at $6112 before freight and PDI.

That's right Todd but the look at your Bill of Sale under optional equipment, basic vehicle list price = $4,663, same as my MSRP quoted, that's what I was talking about.

NOTE: You said your 1975 Esprit has a lazy tachometer. This is often caused by a faulty speed sensor (near the driveshaft?) on cars with a electronic tachometer.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Really? I thought the tach got it's signal from the distributor. Can anyone verify?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I thought too it was off the TACH terminal on the HEI.

69camarox11 · Addicted!

69Laurentian wrote:
Really? I thought the tach got it's signal from the distributor. Can anyone verify?

Duh!!! I feel so dumb! Also I apologize to TransMan for hi-jacking his thread about finding his 1980 TranAm's build sheet.

My mistake about the tach. The tachometer does indeed receive it's signal from the distributor which it is wired to. I was thinking about a lazy speedometer, in newer cars caused by a faulty speed sensor and in older cars caused by a dry speedometer cable, fixed by replacing speed sensor or lubricating the speedometer cable.

Now back to Todd's original lazy tachometer problem. This is most probably a short circuit (burnt or naked wire) in the tachometer wiring harness, most likely the (brown?) wire part of tach harness running from the distributor to firewall to dash to gage console. Check that wire in engine compartment, if not that then it has to be the ground wire on back of the tach is not grounded properly to a metal dash part.

69camarox11 · Addicted!

69Laurentian wrote:
Ah I see. However I feel the number of 4 speed Esprits would be lower as this model was not really geared towards a performance oriented driver.

Following information is from books by John Gunnell, Standard Catalog of Firebird 1967-2002 and Standard Catalog of Camaro 1967-2002.

1975 Model-year production of Firebirds was 84,063 and Camaros was 145,770. Of the 84,063 Firebirds produced, just 6% (5,044) had the 4-speed manual transmission, only 7.2% (6,052) had the 3-speed standard manual transmission and the other 86.8% (72,967) had the automatic transmissions.

Of the 84,063 Firebirds produced for 1975 Model-year production, 4,160 were exports to Canada. Going by the same percentages listed above, can it be said that of those 4,160 Firebirds exported to Canada, that 6% (250) had 4-speeds, 7.2% (299) had 3-speeds and the other 86.8% (3,611) had automatic transmissions.

So probably most of these 250 Canadian 1975 Firebird 4-speeds were probably installed in 400ci or 455ci Formulas or TransAms and very, very few were in the 1975 350ci 4bbl Esprit.

Todd, that is about as close as I can get!!! I can't find it in any book or online.

Really, the only one that can probably tell you the true, exact, precise number is George Zapora with V.V.S., General Motors of Canada Limited.

-- Edited by 69camarox11 on Monday 6th of June 2011 03:12:16 PM

-- Edited by 69camarox11 on Monday 6th of June 2011 03:14:07 PM

69camarox11 · Addicted!

Here are 2 more 1975 Firebird Window Stickers, for a Formula and a TransAm. I think the Formula's date of production is close to Todd's 1975 Esprit. If it is, just think about it Todd, this Formula might have been on the Norwood assembly line right beside your Esprit.

The Formula's VIN is 2U87E5N549191

The TransAm's VIN is 2W87S5N520320

-- Edited by 69camarox11 on Tuesday 7th of June 2011 04:11:30 PM