Hi to everyone. I have not posted on this fourm in a while and need to get back into the swing of things, lol. I have a 1978 Chevrolet Bel Air 4 dr sedan with a factory installed 250 cid inline six, (I know, not a pontiac, but made and sold in canada only). I am having issues with the engine pinging at light loads and when comming back on the gas after making a turn. I have the timming set at the factory spec, 10 degrees BTDC and all vaccum advance components installed and working correctly(delay valve, thermal vaccum switch). I also restored the function of the EGR valve to help with this problem, my question is, will this hurt my engine if I continue to drive it this way? Sorry for the long post!
Will this hurt my engine if I continue to drive it this way?
Yes.
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Prince Edward Island
'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.
I bet there's a ton of carbon in that motor causing the pinging. You can run a higher octane fuel which might help. Back in the day when I had a 70 Biscayne with a 250 I'd pour water down the carb while revving the engine (so that it didn't stall) to get rid of carbon. It seemed to help. Some guys used trans fluid (lots of white smoke!). There's commercial products that may work better.
Will this hurt my engine if I continue to drive it this way?
Yes.
The pinging is not bad, just you can here it as described, I here new cars pinging sometimes but they have knock sensors that my inline six obviously dose not have.
Why not move up in octane and see what happens or retard timing. It will cause problems eventually that will damage the engine.
The main reason I set the timming to factory spec was to help with fuel ecomomy, it was starting to slip a little so I thought I better check the base timming and shure enough it was at like 3 or 4 degrees BTDC. I dont want to have to run premium fuel as this is not a high commpression big block!
I bet there's a ton of carbon in that motor causing the pinging. You can run a higher octane fuel which might help. Back in the day when I had a 70 Biscayne with a 250 I'd pour water down the carb while revving the engine (so that it didn't stall) to get rid of carbon. It seemed to help. Some guys used trans fluid (lots of white smoke!). There's commercial products that may work better.
I guy I work with said to try that but I am afraid of hydro locking the engine and poping a rod out the block! How much water do you pour in while reving the engine? and for how long?
It just runs so good with the factory timming, second gear has more power, you can cruise at a higher speed with less throttle input, do you think that with the carb jetted the way the factory had it,(toronto carb set to factory metering specs) and factroy timming and todays fuel it would be impossible to run without the pinging issue? Plugs look great with no heavy carbon deposits, but I have been told that todays fuel you cant go by the plug read any more!
The main reason I set the timming to factory spec was to help
with fuel ecomomy
Is it a daily driver? lighter puddle jumpers are easier on fuel..
Think about making it lighter!!
run 1/4 tank of fuel take out seats and carpeting and insulation remove the spare remove the bumpers
1000 lbs of weight will increase your fuel mileage especially if you drive it a lot
yes it is a daily driver, but the mentioned items that you say to remove are not quite feaseable, remove the bumpers! I understand what you mean as far a weight reduction but...
I poured a small steady stream while revving the engine (fairly high) for about 10 seconds. Don't pour a ton at a time- just enough to generate steam. It's the conversion to steam that removes the carbon. Steam wont upset your neighbors as much as burning trans fluid. Disclaimer: Even though I never had a problem doesn't mean you won't.
Disclaimer: Even though I never had a problem doesn't mean you won't.
(lol) Todd, Todd, Todd!!!! I have never used water but like previously said, there are many top end cleaners, such as GM Cleens designed specifically for this..
Personally, I love my GM penetrating fluid but it will create a little smoke... But using it cleans and lubes the throttle plates. Just my 2 cents!
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 08:36:44 PM
Disclaimer: Even though I never had a problem doesn't mean you won't.
(lol) Todd, Todd, Todd!!!! I have never used water but like previously said, there are many top end cleaners, such as GM Cleens designed specifically for this..
Personally, I love my GM penetrating fluid but it will create a little smoke... But using it cleans and lubes the throttle plates. Just my 2 cents!
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 08:36:44 PM
I had several beakers of water poured through my Chevelle right after I got it, then I took it for a drive & changed the oil after.
GM Cleens is the stuff to use; just pour it in slowly. Just before the engine stalls, dump the rest in and let it sit for a few hours. There will be clouds of smoke while you are dumping it in, but upon restart there will be very little. Take it out on the highway and try to hang in the fast lane with traffic. The car should run smoother, better and hopefully without any more pinging.
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67 Chevelle Malibu Sport Coupe, Oshawa-built 250 PG never disturbed.
In garage, 296 cid inline six & TH350...
Cam, Toronto.
I don't judge a man by how far he's fallen, but by how far back he bounces - Patton
I had several beakers of water poured through my Chevelle right after I got it, then I took it for a drive & changed the oil after.
GM Cleens is the stuff to use; just pour it in slowly. Just before the engine stalls, dump the rest in and let it sit for a few hours. There will be clouds of smoke while you are dumping it in, but upon restart there will be very little. Take it out on the highway and try to hang in the fast lane with traffic. The car should run smoother, better and hopefully without any more pinging.
Plus one.
When I purchased my 4 speed big block Grande Parisienne, it had been a city car and was well carboned up. About a week after I got it, after a high rpm road test (!) it had a knock which turned out to be harmless carbon knock. Can of GM Cleens later, all better. Few weeks after, same thing again. Over the course of the next 10,000 miles or so, I had to carry a can of Cleens along as it developed knocks from carbon chunks loosening up at least 10-12 times. Finally it cleaned up using Cleens and the problem was solved. To me, that is the best solution. Don't give up if one can won't fix it. Wait a week or so, try another can.
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Tuesday 22nd of November 2011 11:56:44 PM
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
Could it also be caused by the fuel not having lead in it anymore, I was getting a small amount of ping from my 6 along with "shaky II" motion and all went away when i changed to electronic ignition. The one that goes in the distributor so everything looks stock. In passing how can you tell what year a 250 6cyl motor comes from ??
I replaced my 194 with a 250 30 yrs ago , got it for $100 and have not had to do anything to it but change gaskets and carb..
and move oil dipstick.
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Surrey BC
1963 Acadian Beaumont Sport Deluxe http://www.63acadian.com/
I had my car club meeting here last night & we were talking about this same problem. Most of the members that have this "ping" thinks it the low Octane rating of our fuel. Most guys were running Petro Cda. premium at 91 Octane but when the switched over to Esso or Shell [ no ethanol in these brands]same rating, the ping went away. So in this case we agreed that the octane rating on pump was wrong or cheap fuel in prem. tank. One member also told us that 3 of his Pontiacs that sat out the season[not driven]this yr. had the neoprene fuel lines rot off & one had the fuel pump "case" rot out, all after just one yr. of not being used & ethanol fuel being used. Another member had showed us at the last meeting his Holley 850 with the float bowls "eaten' right through, again "ethanol" fuel . Shell Esso & Petro Cda. all claim "no ethanol" in premium fuel!!!!
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Some times I wake up GRUMPY, but today I let her sleep in !!!!!!!!BLACKSTOCK Ont.
You got it. Lets put it this way, Sea Foam has been in business for about 70 years I think. Where did you buy it and how much, just curious. Parts Source has it where I live.
