You'll never fit a 275 on a 10" wheel with skirts, unless perhaps if they were custom backspace. I had 265mm on a 8" Rally and they rubbed. But 66 might be different?
On the Challenger the 275 on 10" have enough space towards the fender lips and don't stick out at all. If the wheel wells on a Parisienne are roughly the same size then it should be possible to close the skirts without rubbing. Hard to imagine there is less space for wheels on a much bigger car. But that's why i was aksing what is the widest i can go.
I'm planning to run 15 by 7 inches ralleys on mine. If my memory serves me it seems to me that when I tried 8 inch ralleys they rubbed. Thats stock ralley Im talking about. There isan't all that much room back there and even less with the skirts on.
Ok now i'm a bit confused. The 66 Grande Parisienne looks exactly the same as the US Grand Prix of the same year, which as i read was the sport-luxury edition of the Bonneville, with its GTO inspired front grille. But to my knowledge the Grand Prix was just the top trim level of the Bonneville, no different car.
If this is true and if the 66 Grande Parisienne is the equivalent of the Grand Prix (they look the same), then it should also just be an option package on the 66 Parisienne, no different car.
I'm not an expert here, but I'll attempt to help out a little.
First of all, to the best of my knowledge, the American Grand Prix for 1966 was based on the shorter Catalina body, not the long Bonneville body. Note from the factory brochure that it shares dimensions with the Catalina and 2+2 and the Ventura, not the Bonneville.
For the complete American brochure, click on the link below:
Now, for big Pontiacs, forget all the US - Canadian comparisons as it only makes things more confusing. The Canadian Pontiacs were marketed very differently than US Pontiacs, for a number of reasons that I won't get into here.
Where in the US Pontiacs were marketed between Chevy and Oldsmobile as GM's "sporty" brand, in Canada they were basically marketed as an upscale Chevy. There's a better comparison model-for-model with Chevy than with American Pontiac, and even then there isn't a direct comparison. If you look at model pricing in Canada, similar models were priced just slightly above their Chevy counterparts, whereas in the US, lower model Pontiacs had some pricing overlap with upper model Chevys and upper model Pontiacs had some overlap with lower model Oldsmobiles. See what I'm getting at?
In Canada, Pontiacs used all Chevy "mechanical" components, including engine, transmission, drivetrain components, chassis, suspension, etc etc. All that stuff was different than American Pontiacs.
Body styling was definitely American Pontiac, but made to fit all the Chevy running gear, therefore resulting in some unique body parts (others here will be able to give you exact details on which parts may fit and which ones won't). So forget that in the US the Grand Prix was marketed like a Bonneville - none of that applies to Canadian Pontiacs.
Instead, think (for 1966):
Grand Parisienne = Caprice
Parisienne = Impala
Laurentian = Bel Air
Strato Chief = Biscayne
For comparison, here's a link to the Canadian Pontiac brochure:
Thanks for clarifying this MC. You are right, the US Grand Prix was based on the Catalina - not the Bonneville, my bad.
I believe the best is if we first take the Parisienne apart and see which parts are still good and which ones need to be replaced. When i have a complete list of all parts that i need, i will report back to check with you guys which parts of which Chevy or Pontiac i can use to replace them.
It's the skirt retainer that hits. These 17" Torque Thrust II are 4.5" Backspace, and with that number they have a good fingers worth of room between the 235 tire and the retainer. With 265's on the Rallys I could hardly get the skirt on. That said, I wished I'd have went with a 245 tire on this rim. The Rally wheels were 4" Backspace. So if you can go, say 5" backspace, you might be able to fit a large tire and wider wheel. But you might be pushing it a 10" wide. Also the overall diameter will factor in. My tires are 26" or so.
-- Edited by cdnpont on Monday 9th of April 2012 05:11:08 PM
Didn't think of the skirt retainers before, but makes sense. In this case i will most likely also go for 8" wide wheels in the back and see if i can find them with 5" backspace to make at least 255 rubbers fit.
Somehow i like the look of the American Racing Hopsters. Plus they are available with custom backspace.
I'm just not sure if i prefer more oldschool 15" or modern 17" like yours. But as the wheels are one of the last things i'll add to complete this project, there's still plenty of time to think about it.
The beauty thing about your car is that the chevy parts are easy to get as there is a huge repro industry in the states for them and you are in the right place to get Canadian Pontiac parts if they exist.
I'd still be running the Rallys if I didn't find the Torque Thrusts at a Car Show in Myrtle Beach South Carolina last year. $180 each with Chrome valves and lugs. Too good to pass up even if these might not have been what I'd really like on this car.
I'd probably get hated on here, but I'd really like a set of Billet Intro Vista's 18x8. But at about $2k It'll not be happening anytime soon...
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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT.
It would be really interesting to learn where all these extra inches go on the US Pontiacs. Only in the front or is every single bodypanel slightly different?
Also i am curious if i a Bonneville or Catalina dashboard are the same width as the Parisienne, as i need to replace mine.
And if the width on these cars is identical, i am even thinking to weld in the taillight section from a Bonny or Grand Prix, as i actually prefer the looks of these lights.
Howdy again. You will have a tough time finding an uncracked dash due to sun or cold temp exposure to most of these cars over 45 years or so.
You may find the very occasional one that is not cracked but it will still be fragile after all these years
I had to send mine to an outfit in the states called Just Dashes (They have a website) They will strip the vinyl from yours and replace it. Attached is a picture of mine after it was done. It wasn't cheap.
As for the rear pan the Canadian Grande Parisienne rear panel will fit more or less on a Parisenne but not exactly due to some small differences in the trunk area. I haven't done this myself but I have spoken to a fellow who has converted a 66 parisienne convertible into a Grande and he stated that the trunk doesn't quite fit right. It could be done but you probably need the inner trunk panel as well. I have attached a picture of it as well. I have to admit it does still look good!
You may have better luck with the Bonneville treatment assuming the car is the same width. More research re body dimensions may do the trick.
Its not easy to get to look at a 66 Bonneville here to see if they are different as they were few and far between here.
Howdy Ken! Beautiful Grande that you have, congrats.
These taillights look amazing. I just wonder where i can get such a rear panel from (including lights) as i couldn't find any donator Grande Parisienne or Grand Prix so far.
Would you know if there are any reproduction parts available?
If they are nowhere to be found, i'd be happy with Bonneville taillights as well, but these seem also rare as gold.
According to the dimensions in print from 1966, both American and Canadian big Pontiacs are 79.7 inches wide.
See the table in my post above for the width of the US cars and compare to the dimensions out of the '66 Canadian Pontiac owners manual below:
That being said, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get actual measurements from the owner of a US car before you commit your money to buying parts.
PS: To avoid fitting problems with dashes from other models, i guess i will also have mine repaired and upholstered with black leather (the same i'm gonna use for the seats).
MC wrote:That being said, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to get actual measurements from the owner of a US car before you commit your money to buying parts.
Thanks for the info. If the manual says they are both the same width, then i guess any eventual difference can only be marginal. In which case it should still be easy to cut and weld a Bonny panel into the Parisienne.
Hi 66 Parisienne just to be clear the convertible is not mine. That was the car belonging to the fellow who did the conversion. mine is still a work in progress. I will attach a picture.
if you really want a 66 Bonneville back pan I do know of a Bonneville in a boneyard about 3 hours away but I am not sure if the back pan is still intact. If I have the opportunity I can take a look one of these days and take a measurement as well.
Trying to find a Grande prix or Grande Parisienne back piece will be difficult but not imposssible as they made about 6300 Grandes in Canada in 66 and about 36,000 Grande Prixs in the States. Those pieces that are left tend to be hoarded a bit for spares as they are quite breakable being a big die cast piece.
Trying to find a Grande prix or Grande Parisienne back piece will be difficult but not imposssible as they made about 6300 Grandes in Canada in 66 and about 36,000 Grande Prixs in the States.
He has one obstacle Ken, he is located in Switzerland ... right Ralph?
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Prince Edward Island
'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.
Shipping parts will be a bit complicated but I'm willing to bring them over in person if he pays my personal freight charge ( airfare) I've been there once and its a beautiful gem of a country!
Ken, Switzerland has some of the most beautiful mountain roads for cruising along in your classic ride and is always worth a visit. The local laws on anything automotive related are superstrict though and can be a real pain at times.
When we were there we rented a car and drove quite a few of the roads. We went to the Grindlwald and around that area. Roads are lot skinnier and curvier than we are used to here. (Alberta) You have to be on your toes. A big old barge like a Pontiac would have made me sweat even more than i was!
You should have visited the San Bernardino or Stelvio pass, which Top Gear magazine just voted two of the "top driving roads in the world". Just keep your classic car out of Swiss cities whenever possible. They are full of narrow streets, tiny parking lots, speedcameras and horrible drivers.
I do remember we must have gotten passed by about a hundred guys on sport bikes with big grins under their helmets!
As for trannys my thought would be to do what I have done on my 66 which is to toss the powerglide (thats what I'm assuming you have) and replace it with a beefed up TurboHydro 700 r4 or that type of thing. You can get them so you don't need a computer to work them and they will then give you 4 gears instead of two including an overdrive!
I really haven't gotten mine worked out yet so can't report on its overall performance but im' sure there are many others that can. It is a bolt on to small blocks as well. You may have to modify the crossmember a bit and possibly shorten the drive shaft as well as figuring out how to integrate it with the current two position shifter but those are pretty minor.
If you look in the kijiji thread on the forum you'll see a 66 Grande for sale in PEI that would have the back panel you need. Just for info.
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Wednesday 11th of April 2012 01:55:08 PM
-- Edited by 66 Grande guy on Wednesday 11th of April 2012 06:29:00 PM
My first choice for such a road would actually be a bike or agile sportscar, but there are also plenty of outstretched passages nearby that are more enjoyable in a classic car.
Back to my Parisienne, i am about to complete a "wishlist" of all modifictations and upgrades i'd like to realize during its restoration. In the coming days i'll discuss this with the team of www.street-classics.de who will most likely become my partners in crime for this project.
One aspect of mods i'm planning regards power, which is quite easy to get with a new intake, carb, headers and a new cam. But in order to put these added hp on the road, i might also have to change the transmission.
Any suggestions on a common replacement solution (in best case one that bolts right on without requiring lots of further modifications)? I'd like to stick with an auto trans though for comfort.
Thanks Ken! I just wrote to the seller, asking if he would cut out this panel and sell it separately. Eventually i can also use other parts of this car, so let's see what he replies. :)
Btw, i am planning to add the hoodscoop of a 65-67 GTO on my Parisienne. On Ebay and other websites i only found complete new replacement hoods. These are quite pricey and also hard to ship to Europe. Would you have any idea where i might get a used scoop from that i can weld on my hood?
