Years ago (like 15 or so) when I had the 427 in my Acadian, it developed an intermittent problem of no crank (no click, no sound at all when you hit the key) and it progressively got worse. It would always start jumping the battery and S terminal on the solenoid. I finally got frustrated and installed a Ford solenoid on the inner fender and it never gave a lick of trouble after that.
Of course, when I switched over to the 327 over the last few years, in the interest of keeping it original I deleted the Ford solenoid setup and was determined I would find the problem. I got the car running with the new 327 setup about a year ago but have likely only started it no more than 30-40 times. Until a few starts ago, there was no problem so I figured it had been a connection problem that I had solved when I did the engine swap. However, it's gotten worse again and now today was a no start no matter how many tries.
Tonight I did some testing. Here is what I've tried:
-installed a test lead on the S terminal (crank terminal, purple wire) on the solenoid and put on a test lite, tried to crank. No crank, test lite was very dim, volt meter showed about 5.5 volts.
-pulled the bulkhead connector apart at the firewall thinking I would see if the ignition switch was sending 12 volts through the purple wire. Bright test lite, full voltage coming from the ignition switch. Aha, must be the wire going to the solenoid, from the connector! Ran a new wire from the connector down to the S on the solenoid, STILL no crank. Pull the new wire off the solenoid, test it, 12 volts, hook it up, test it, 5.5 volts, still no crank.
-hooked up the battery charger and instant crank! However, even though it cranked, the voltmeter still only shows about 7.2 volts going to the S terminal with the charger hooked up when I crank.
I went all through the starter before it went on the car.
I have a couple of thoughts.
Could a bad ignition switch do that? As soon as the wire is hooked up to the solenoid, it's like it can't send full voltage but when it's only to a voltmeter, it can send full voltage?
Could a bad solenoid act like that? Some kind of internal problem that it won't allow a full contact in the crank circuit?
I'm baffled. I enjoy electrical but this one has me stumped.
-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Monday 4th of June 2012 10:20:37 PM
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
I have the exact same problem with my 68 GMC. Every now and then, like over the last 6 years, i would get the same problem. Totally random and at the worst possible time. I carried a screwdriver to jump the starter under the hood. Worked everytime
I narrowed it down and checked everything same as you have done.
Thought it was a neutral safety issue for sure, exact symptoms, but not, Traced the purple wire, bulkhead, everything you have done
I thought for sure it was the ignition switch, so i changed that a few years ago. but then got the problem at the most inconvienent time.
That had me totally stumped.
This spring it happened again a few times.
Now i have a bad habit of never fully tightening my battery terminals.
That was it, as long as they are clean and tight, i have never had the problem again. Thats what i would do. I bet it works
I have good heavy cables, clean, good solenoid, frame and firewall groundstraps, the whole 9 yards, but for some reason, this old truck likes really tight battery connections!
Crazy, but true!
-- Edited by beaumontguru on Monday 4th of June 2012 10:33:04 PM
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Beaumontguru
MY BEAUMONT HAS 4 STUDDED TIRES AND 2 BLOCKHEATERS......AND LOTS OF OIL UNDERNEATH. The other one has a longer roof.
I should add, it's a manual trans, there are no safety switches. The wire leaves the ignition switch, goes through the bulkhead connector in the firewall and right to the S terminal on the solenoid.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
I know, i always leave the negative a bit loose, for storage, especially in the garage, but ever since the truck, i tighten them on all the cars when i leave the driveway now.
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Beaumontguru
MY BEAUMONT HAS 4 STUDDED TIRES AND 2 BLOCKHEATERS......AND LOTS OF OIL UNDERNEATH. The other one has a longer roof.
We had the exact same problem with my freinds 67 malibu 396 car. Tried everything same as you. We wired a start button under the hood to get him started when it happened. The ignition switch was the next thing to change but he passed away and the car got sold. Never did find out what it was. Hope you have better luck.
I have seen the nuts that hold the terminals on the solenoid bakealite cap"loose" causing this problem. Under the bakealite cap are contacts ,these could be crappy. Remember,they don't make stuff like they used to. John
I HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THAT IN MY '66 BISCAYNE. I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS THE PLUG , OR THE IGNITION SWITCH, BUT I WOULD WIGGLE THE PLUG GOING INTO THE SWITCH AND IT WOULD FIRE UP. I TRIED CLEANING UP THE CONNECTION, BUT IT WOULD STILL DO IT. IT WOULD ONLY HAPPEN ON THE RARE OCCASION SO I NEVER WORRIED TOO MUCH ABOUT IT TO FIND THE REAL CAUSE (PLUG OR SWITCH).
I had the same problem with my 65, but usually only when hot, so did the remote solenoid trick, no more problem. Funny thing is when I switched the 283 out of the 65 and into the 59 the problem followed it. So in my case obviously a starter/solenoid issue although we tried every thing in the 65 to get it to work, We changed starters, solenoids, cut the spring down, nothing helped. Gave up, figured a bad wire somewhere, and just did the old "hot start" kit. Did that again on the 59. Some day I'll fix it right.
On the solenoid terminals, remove the top nuts and wires, and ensure the terminals are tight from the factory. It wouldn't be the first time the terminals weren't tightened.
I HAD A PROBLEM LIKE THAT IN MY '66 BISCAYNE. I'M NOT SURE IF IT WAS THE PLUG , OR THE IGNITION SWITCH, BUT I WOULD WIGGLE THE PLUG GOING INTO THE SWITCH AND IT WOULD FIRE UP. I TRIED CLEANING UP THE CONNECTION, BUT IT WOULD STILL DO IT. IT WOULD ONLY HAPPEN ON THE RARE OCCASION SO I NEVER WORRIED TOO MUCH ABOUT IT TO FIND THE REAL CAUSE (PLUG OR SWITCH).
I tried wiggling on "crank" with no luck but I'm planning to remove the connector and possibly even run a new wire from there to the solenoid for testing.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
I had the same problem with my 65, but usually only when hot, so did the remote solenoid trick, no more problem. Funny thing is when I switched the 283 out of the 65 and into the 59 the problem followed it. So in my case obviously a starter/solenoid issue although we tried every thing in the 65 to get it to work, We changed starters, solenoids, cut the spring down, nothing helped. Gave up, figured a bad wire somewhere, and just did the old "hot start" kit. Did that again on the 59. Some day I'll fix it right.
If you "fix it right" please PLEASE let me know what you did!
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
On the solenoid terminals, remove the top nuts and wires, and ensure the terminals are tight from the factory. It wouldn't be the first time the terminals weren't tightened.
Yes, I learned that one the hard way many years ago. NEVER trust a new part! And then to top it off I overtightened them and broke the new solenoid...
I have exhausted all what I see as the "common" stuff that I've encountered or read/heard about over the years.
I spoke with 67 Poncho late last night and he gave me a couple of new ideas. Till now I have been working from the ignition to the starter but now I'm going to go back to the battery and start there.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
I had the same problem with my 65, but usually only when hot, so did the remote solenoid trick, no more problem. Funny thing is when I switched the 283 out of the 65 and into the 59 the problem followed it. So in my case obviously a starter/solenoid issue although we tried every thing in the 65 to get it to work, We changed starters, solenoids, cut the spring down, nothing helped. Gave up, figured a bad wire somewhere, and just did the old "hot start" kit. Did that again on the 59. Some day I'll fix it right.
If you "fix it right" please PLEASE let me know what you did!
Well Carl that car needs a total new wiring harness, among other things, and that isn't happening anytime soon, so for now the "bandaids" work for moving it around. Still have to finish the 65, and the Acadian needs some lovin too, and............................
The starter receives 12 volts from the battery through the starter relay. When the key switch is turned to "START," voltage flows from the battery to the starter relay. The starter relay directs battery voltage from the battery to the starter solenoid. While the starter is activated, the starter bendix engages the flywheel, cranking the engine over.
Chances are that if a starter solenoid is bad, the starter will not work well enough to start the engine.
This one has no starter relay Carl. Only the newer vehicles have starter relays (well, sort of, Ford had solenoids/relays years ago). I am saying no to the solenoid because when I test at the terminal there and only see 5 volts I can't expect the solenoid to work correctly with such low voltage.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
Well, you're not gonna believe it. Got out of home depot and the truck did it to me again. first time in a couple years. Get out, jump solenoid with screwdriver, good to go.
Then i remembered that 2 nights ago i changed my alternator and had to disconect the battery, sure enough, there in the home depot parkinglot, i was able to wiggle the battery connection at the battery. Even wiggling it, does not help, so when i got home, tightened them up really good, problem solved
Every time it happens is when its hot out too, or long driving. Probalby just enough extra stress on the system,
I know, its crazy!!!
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Beaumontguru
MY BEAUMONT HAS 4 STUDDED TIRES AND 2 BLOCKHEATERS......AND LOTS OF OIL UNDERNEATH. The other one has a longer roof.
Well, you're not gonna believe it. Got out of home depot and the truck did it to me again. first time in a couple years. Get out, jump solenoid with screwdriver, good to go.
Then i remembered that 2 nights ago i changed my alternator and had to disconect the battery, sure enough, there in the home depot parkinglot, i was able to wiggle the battery connection at the battery. Even wiggling it, does not help, so when i got home, tightened them up really good, problem solved
Every time it happens is when its hot out too, or long driving. Probalby just enough extra stress on the system,
I know, its crazy!!!
I have the exact same problem with my Beaumont seems worse when on a hot day or after a long drive in the hot weather. I put a heat shield on the starter ,but this did not help. Also put in a relay that may have helped a little, but it still does it every once in awhile. It is frustrating!
I'm more used to it having been a hot problem on various cars over the years. This one will do it on an ice cold engine. Last night the car had been parked 2 days when it wouldn't go!
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
I will finally chime my 2 pennies here............. Mine would do it more when the engine was hot and required more umph from the starter than when cold...
I suggested to Carl last week via phone call, mostly because I suck at typing, that the the issue could be not what is coming out of the ign switch but rather what is being supplied to it!
I somewhat doubt, providing they are clean, the batter cables not being torqued to specs will be the issue... All my top post battery cars just have them snugged on by hand just in the event you have to quickly remove them! The terminals are pre tightened before I install them and just twisted on over the post... That is what a tapered post and terminal are meant to do...
I still think it is a supply issue from the main feed wire from the battery, in my case, to the junction block behind the battery, to the horn relay and then beyond!
Now, on a side note, top battery terminals........! I have used many and I find these are the cats meow! For $5.25 at you local, or far away John Deere dealer......... They are not made out of that Chinese refridgerated butter material and they last! I use them on all my top post batteries and recommend then to everyone I see using the other crap!
Part #TY25929.. (This picture uploaded and INSERTED)
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Monday 11th of June 2012 11:38:27 AM
