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Canadian Poncho Homepage -> Canadian Poncho -> Acadian/Ventura Power Train Tech Forum -> 6 cylinder starter shims?
Post Info TOPIC: 6 cylinder starter shims?
hawkeye5766


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6 cylinder starter shims?
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The starter on my 6 cyl sounds like it's cross meshing,pulled it out last week and couldn't see anything wrong but still made a grinding noise when I put it back in and turned it over. Doesn't look like it's side to side crossed, just looks like the teeth might be meshing too deep. Don't recall ever seeing shims in any of the 60s 6 cyls I've torn apart? Maybe I should pull the inspection cover and look for bent ring gear while someone cranks the engine? Did they ever use shims? Thx Jim



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timbuk


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ive never shimmed a 6 banger starter this could be interesting

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2drpost


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yep, seen a number of 6cyls with shims



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4SPEED427


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It should be the same shim as a 283 starter, or for that matter, any of the V8 small block starters with the long and short bolt setup.

I can likely find you numbers at work tomorrow if you like.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
GLHS60


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Are you using the correct starter bolts??

Thanks
Randy

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hawkeye5766


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GLHS60 wrote:

Are you using the correct starter bolts??

Thanks
Randy

 Funny I can't remember ever seeing shims on a 6 cyl, Randy are you talking about the bollts with the knurl on the head side? I don't recall but I will see when I remove to put in shims. 



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hawkeye5766


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Carl Stevenson wrote:

It should be the same shim as a 283 starter, or for that matter, any of the V8 small block starters with the long and short bolt setup.

I can likely find you numbers at work tomorrow if you like.

 Thanks for the offer Carl, only if its no bother, would my local jobber be able to supply or dealer only? I can check tomorrow. Thx Jim



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4SPEED427


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Yes, the bolts should be knurled.

Yes, a jobber should be able to provide easily.

I've been off work for a week and when I go back tomorrow it will likely be a zoo for a while (!!!) but let me know if your local store can't help you out.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
hawkeye5766


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I know what it's like taking time off, seems like nothing ( or not much) gets done when your away. Hope you don't get swamped ! Will let you know if i can't source. Thanks

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GLHS60


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Right, the correct bolts are knurled. And the threads protrude slightly out of the starter housing so as not to crush the starter nose when tightened. Incorrect bolts can actually cause the starter drive teeth to mesh too deep.

Thanks
Randy

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hawkeye5766


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GLHS60 wrote:

Right, the correct bolts are knurled. And the threads protrude slightly out of the starter housing so as not to crush the starter nose when tightened. Incorrect bolts can actually cause the starter drive teeth to mesh too deep.

Thanks
Randy

 Thanks Randy, will stop by my dads on the way home and grab some proper ones just in case. Would 283/327 be the same bolts, vertical not horizontal(bell housing bolts)? Thx Jim



-- Edited by hawkeye5766 on Monday 28th of July 2014 01:39:19 AM

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GLHS60


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I'm not 100% positive, but I think Carl is correct, one long and one short, like 283's and many other V8s.

Thanks
Randy



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4SPEED427


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GM says 3/8 X 1-27/32 and 3/8 X 4-21/32 for the two correct bolts.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
GLHS60


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Here's a picture I got off the web showing the correct style bolt and it's knurling slightly protruding through the starter nose.

In this picture the paper clip is used to illustrate that the bolt should be snug in the housing.

In the early 1980's, the starter bolts were changed from 3/8" to 10mm and using an earlier starter with metric bolts results in a loose fit.

I'm a firm believer in using the correct knurled bolts as I'm sure there was some engineering involved.

Thanks

Randy

 

 

 

 

CHEVY STARTER BOLTS.jpg



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Sherwood Park
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4SPEED427


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GLHS60 wrote:

I'm a firm believer in using the correct knurled bolts as I'm sure there was some engineering involved.

Thanks

Randy

 

 

 

 

CHEVY STARTER BOLTS.jpg




Absolutely. I've installed a starter with regular bolts and it's noisy because it can wiggle when it's cranking.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
hawkeye5766


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Picked up shims but couldn't find any bolts in all my junk, so I'm hoping the right ones are in the starter or I'll have to pick some up tomorrow. How do I know how many shims to put in? One at a time untill the noise stops or do you chalk the starter teeth to check for mesh? Thx Jim

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GLHS60


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The rule of thumb is, clearance for a paper clip, between the depth of the starter drive teeth and flywheel/flexplate teeth.
As Carl said, use the correct knurled bolts, and make sure they are snug in the housing, please don't skip this important item. Although it's a normal practice, I don't think I've ever shimmed a starter, I normally have some extra housings around, and try for a nice fit without shims.

Thanks
Randy


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4SPEED427


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I think those bolts fit pretty much all the 6's at least until the TH350 came along, and maybe even then too, I don't know if the 6 used the big or small flexplate.

For sure all small flywheel engines used that style starter for at least a decade. If you can't find bolts, hopefully you have a packrat car nut friend close by.

If not, let me know, I would sure think I have a few I can mail to you.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)
hawkeye5766


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Thanks for the response guys, will tackle tomorrow and have a few guys I think might have right bolts if mine are incorrect. Could I disconect bat lead on back starter ( clamp supply power and bat together ) and get someone to turn key to "s" to engage starter drive to measure? or is there an easier way?

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GLHS60


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In my opinion, the easiest/safest way is to remove the solenoid and activate the starter drive plunger manually.

Thanks
Randy

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hawkeye5766


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Thanks Randy, never thought of the easy way and it only takes one person.

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davelallen


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new/rebuilt gm starters usualy come with shims and a little rod to use as a gauge to make sure meshing properlybiggrin



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