Love the story Vincent. Another that can't wait for the next episode.
I too can relate to the listening to every noise and fearing the worst, I do believe it's that we do think too much and know more of what could go wrong.
About your timing / fuel issues with the slower speed part of the route, and I might be getting ahead of your story, did you try driving in 3rd? rather than OD. I know with my dad's 56 with the 305 with carb and 2004R it really didn't like cruising below 1500 rpm, seemed there wasn't enough airflow in the 1200 - 1400 rpm range. We ended up changing gears so it would cruise in the 1600 - 1700 range, it was much happier, milage improved as well.
Love the story Vincent. Another that can't wait for the next episode. I too can relate to the listening to every noise and fearing the worst, I do believe it's that we do think too much and know more of what could go wrong. About your timing / fuel issues with the slower speed part of the route, and I might be getting ahead of your story, did you try driving in 3rd? rather than OD. I know with my dad's 56 with the 305 with carb and 2004R it really didn't like cruising below 1500 rpm, seemed there wasn't enough airflow in the 1200 - 1400 rpm range. We ended up changing gears so it would cruise in the 1600 - 1700 range, it was much happier, milage improved as well.
I believe that while in OD, the extra load at the 1500rpm range is fine... but as she loads up and wants to shift to 4th, drive, the less load and full vacuum is allowing full advance... the same in 3rd... I know the premium fuel helped where it was premium as purchased.... sometime, I wonder if what you are buying as premium isn't really regular in disguise!
So, going up hills not having the power to pull and having to downshift was where the issue lays... With the 2:73 diff I have in there, I know it is a pull on the engine in OD but it really shouldn't be an issue being the engine that it is.... if the engine was fresh... I was telling Cheviac, starting the engine cold, it does sound like she has a cylinder low on compression, the same as it has always been... with that, I know it is part of the problem... (I'm ok with that, though)
When I turn off the TCC via the toggle switch, the transmission reverts to 4th, (drive), and if I pull the gearshift to 3rd, that would be roughly the same ratio as the old THM-400 in drive.
@70mph:
OD, @1500rpm
4th, @1800rpm
3rd, @2200rpm
I will test drive the car again to confirm the 4th and 3rd rpms...
And I agree, a 3:08 would possibly work better to bring up the rpm's so she can freewheel better...
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Thursday 13th of October 2016 01:32:19 PM
Great story and neat car to take on a big trip. You should get a moose bar on the wagon while in Nfld?
Don
__________________
63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. 1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada
Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic
You should have taken that exit, the beer was cold and free!
LOL.... I was on a point A to B mission! WOW! Couldn't bring my old derelict there... They are way to shiny!!! Absolute beauts... a very fine collection!
After a decent nights rest and finally booking my fare on the ferry ride to Newfoundland, I loaded up the car once again. the usual checkover with the fluids, coolant and belts... all looked good.... Checked my oil leak at the rear main... Great... no sign of leakage! Just a darn minute! I was parked on the grass... the inspection cove a drip hanging off of it... and still does to this day!
This particular little motel was off the beaten path a little and wouldn't you know it? I confirmed the old theory that things do happen in 3's..... You guessed it.... I again took the wrong turnoff getting back on the onramp and unfortunately, this time I started heading back WEST! MOTHER TRUCKER! So, I continued on for a couple kms knowing full well that there would be one of those "crossing for authorized vehicles" approaches coming up soon.... Yessir! there it is... Quick look in the mirror and ahead of me, hard left and hammer down to the proper eastward direction once again.....
Left Jemseg, NB @06:30 Aug 31st--7724mi.
After the evening of rain, the day broke to what was to be a great day of travelling... sunny and not much wind to speak of.. With the exception of the construction in northern Ontario and a stretch just after Montreal, the highways were great to travel... great blacktop for smooth sailing... I could follow the cars at their speed and I didn't mind one bit... we were sailing right along.... still a fair amount of hills and without forcing the wagon up them, once the RPM dropped to 1200-ish, I would kick out the TCC and let her do her thing up the hill and once cresting, flip on the switch once again....
Moncton, NB @07:45... 7795mi--45L fill. (189mi travelled)
Got into Moncton at about 07:45 for another fill up... after that, it was a continual smooth straight forward drive... I started to relax and finally enjoy the view.. entered Nova Scotia and the car was seeming becoming her own.... that's when I realized... Actually, near Antigonish and out of the blue, that the wagon was running really, really well... so well in fact, that many of the hills need not require me to toggle the switch out of TCC anymore. I was so baffled by this that I actually toggled the switch to ensure that I was actually in TCC and not 4th.... the more I drove, the more confused and bewildered I actually became... I am not sure that my foot had repositioned on the accelerator but I didn't have to be as aggressive on the foot feed anymore and if I did, the car actually sped up!
I made a call to Cheviac to ask the age ole question, have you ever driven a car that actually became more responsive on a trip instead of the usual getting worse? We chatted for an extended amount of time pondering all sorts of possibles! Don't get me wrong, I was elated but I was unsure why and what the actual reason was... I even made a call to my pal Paul again asking the same thing... As with my previous conversations, he was possibly expecting another barrage of verbal smack but I am sure he was pleased with my change in emotion and possibly worried about me at the same time! (lol) Take the pleasant change in driveability and go with it...
Pass the countless wind turbines and just around the Canso Causeway, she rolled 8000mi.... This again was a 90km zone, #105, but the old gal just motored along without a care in the world.... and finally me, as well... Maybe it was the dense salt air? My next biggest concern was Kellys Mountain because it was a fine hill to climb... Hadn't done this since '95 when my Dad and I did it in my '67 2+2 Rag...
'95 was the first year I got to drive the car since my Dad gave it to me in '82... I was 15! It really needed lots... After putting in countless hours in that final push to get it done starting the previous March, this was her maiden voyage... I was still in Goose-Bay, Labrador at that time, finishing the car a mere few days before I joined another ferry there for a 34-36 hour run to Lewisporte, Newfoundland... then another 4 hour drive from there to my hometown of Brigus.. We went to PEI before the bridge was finshed as a vacation.. I put nearly 3400mi on the car in that 2 week span! Great memories....
Rising Kelly's Mountian, the wagon continued to drive effortlessly and near the top, I decided to let her finish the climb in 4th... no issues... Continued on down the other side and motored to the boat...
Filled at the Esso just before because I knew that fuel was 20+ more cents a litre once I crossed the Pond to Newfoundland..... continued to the dock and terminal and got my ticket.... got in the line up at roughly 12:50, 2 1/2 hours before the 2 hour required pre boarding of 15:00... Sail time at roughly 17:30.
Bras D'OR, NS @12:31... 8087mi--63.5L fill. (289mi travelled)
North Sydney Ferry Terminal, 12:50... 8091mi on the clock.. 367Mi travelled.
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 14th of October 2016 01:20:40 AM
Its interesting that you are concentrating so hard on the car noises. When I took the 66 Grande out for its maiden voyage to Winnipeg ( and was greeted by you in Foam Lake with the Great Estate!) I kind of on purpose didn't setup the radio. i really wanted to see and hear how that thing felt and got a good dose of it by the time I got back. Even now with a radio going I sort of know when that car sounds happy. Usually around 75-80 miles per hour.
Its the same sort of awareness a good pilot is always tuned into , in order to be be able to detect a problem as early as possible
It still doesn't mean that you'll never break down but you usually have a good ides of what is going on. Like for me I had to change the fuel filter on that trip about five times as I had ended using a gas tank out of a boneyard car (It looked good with a flashlight.) so when the car started to stumble I knew exactly what was happening and could fix it in about ten minutes.
Its interesting that you are concentrating so hard on the car noises. When I took the 66 Grande out for its maiden voyage to Winnipeg ( and was greeted by you in Foam Lake with the Great Estate!) I kind of on purpose didn't setup the radio. i really wanted to see and hear how that thing felt and got a good dose of it by the time I got back. Even now with a radio going I sort of know when that car sounds happy. Usually around 75-80 miles per hour.
Its the same sort of awareness a good pilot is always tuned into , in order to be be able to detect a problem as early as possible
It still doesn't mean that you'll never break down but you usually have a good ides of what is going on. Like for me I had to change the fuel filter on that trip about five times as I had ended using a gas tank out of a boneyard car (It looked good with a flashlight.) so when the car started to stumble I knew exactly what was happening and could fix it in about ten minutes.
Old habits die hard.... once I got near the boat, I didn't care-ish! Tunes up and cruised right along... Like I said, I drove the car nearly 10,000mi before this, but it was always in my own familiar surroundings... that safety net feeling disappeared once I was leaving Manitoba... it's a long ways home from there... but, it did get better again when I hit the Island!
Funny reading about the things that concern you on the trip. As a lifelong Pontiac engine guy there are different worries on a road trip compared to running rats or mice. For example every Pontiac guy dreads gas stations because of the dreaded hot start after fueling, the configuration of the poncho starter and exhaust eats solinoids. Another issue is engine temperature on hot days especially with gearing that has cruising rpm's north of 3,000.
I'm overdue for a long drive in a vintage ride, you're motivating me to plan a 2017 trek.
Funny reading about the things that concern you on the trip. As a lifelong Pontiac engine guy there are different worries on a road trip compared to running rats or mice. For example every Pontiac guy dreads gas stations because of the dreaded hot start after fueling, the configuration of the poncho starter and exhaust eats solinoids. Another issue is engine temperature on hot days especially with gearing that has cruising rpm's north of 3,000.
I'm overdue for a long drive in a vintage ride, you're motivating me to plan a 2017 trek.
I know what you mean... My sister had a '69 'Bird rag that that 350 went south in just after my Dad bought it... I also converted that car to a 4-gear... He bought a '69 Cat to pilfer the 400 out of in replacement... that engine always had a heating issue and like you say, gave issues on after boil hot starts... Since they were sparce in Newfoundland, I never really understood them fully as I left the Island shortly after to go to work.. But after that one, I didn't have a keen liking to them...
I know many guys that pulled the Pontiac engine to install Chevies for that reason... maybe they didn't understand them either! The BB in the wagon supplies a healthy snap on a hot start up as well.. But I run the great little gear reduction starter that GM supplied in many of the '98 Chev pickups back in the day.... they're great and more importantly, the smaller size positions them further away from the exhaust manifold... Yes, they all have their own idiosyncrasies, for sure!
Glad to hear that this little story is prodding you and hopefully many others to take an adventure... I plan on trekking to the west coast next year.... May as well as I am this close now!
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 14th of October 2016 09:09:53 AM
Vince do you know the Bartlett family from Marysvale? close to Conception Bay. When I bought the 55 in Paradise this family hosted us and we toured all around Conception Bay including Brigus the little town with the huge blueberry festival. First time we ever went to a graveyard with elevated caskets above ground tombs.
North do you have starter heat shields on your cars to keep the heat from the starter ? GM had a couple of different styles for the Pontiac engines. At work in the mid 70"s our beer delivery trucks were powered by 350 or 366 big block engines and we had to have the heat shield installed to avoid the starting issue and they did the job.
Vince do you know the Bartlett family from Marysvale? close to Conception Bay. When I bought the 55 in Paradise this family hosted us and we toured all around Conception Bay including Brigus the little town with the huge blueberry festival. First time we ever went to a graveyard with elevated caskets above ground tombs.
North do you have starter heat shields on your cars to keep the heat from the starter ? GM had a couple of different styles for the Pontiac engines. At work in the mid 70"s our beer delivery trucks were powered by 350 or 366 big block engines and we had to have the heat shield installed to avoid the starting issue and they did the job.
Al
There are many Bartlett families in that area... I am sure I would know someone of the clan there... And yes, the Brigus Blueberry Festival is a yearly hit there... you travelled every footstep on my old stomping grounds!!
While waiting to load the cars and people on the ferry, took time sit back and relax and walk around the area... did a little math on the amount of travel and the total kms travelled.... took a few pictures and as always, played host to anyone that had a spark of interest in the car...
From Foam Lake, SK to the North Sydney, NS ferry terminal, we travelled 2665mi, 4299kms. 3 1/2 days...
The LS4 used 3 litres of oil, and I am sure a good percentage of that made it's' way to the pavement and every stop where she travelled... she left her trail to find her way back home on the return trip...
Chatted with this guy and apparently after leaving Alberta, he had a flat and bent the axle.... he said he removed a bunch of stuff after that including a quad! No sure how he made it but it did wear off a few more tires along the way...
My Dad worked for CN/Marine Atlantic for 42 tears... While walking around the terminal, I snapped these pics because I know He worked on everyone of them in years gone by.... and I possibly did too with him on the many work shifts I went with him for the 2-weeks.. we would head to the engine room after dropping off our personal effects in his cabin..
The solution to Pontiac engine hot start problems is a bit of everything; healthy battery, thick and non oxidized battery cables and clamps, good starter, quality (not chinese junk!) heavy duty solenoid, heat shield if you have the Ram Air or Long branch exhaust manifolds, not too much initial timing advance and ....... luck!
I thought about driving my 2+2 from Calgary to Montreal instead of shipping it but I just didn't have the nerve to do it with a car I don't know and that obviously has spent the last 25 years sitting in a garage. I haven't done an old car long hike in many years, my first was driving home a 69 GTO convertible in 1985, I bought it from the original owner near Santa Barbara and drove it direct from the ladies driveway to mine. Didn't even check the oil before leaving. The car was untouched but with 105,000 miles. Ran like a gem and I made it home without zero issues, no oil additions, nothing! Mind you with a 400, 4 speed and 3.90 gears I never passed a gas station without pulling in! Cruising at 75 or so resulted in 3,500 rpm for 3,000 miles, top down the whole way.
Vincent, I'm a bit surprised the wagon has 2.73 gears, as 2.56 would have been standard with the 454. However, I've seen other ratios, as Big John Preikschat's 70 454 2+2 hardtop by Regina has 2.21 gears. He's idling at 60 mph.
The 454 Laurentian was 2.56, and cruised nicely all day at 80 mph. My 70 2+2 rag has the 2.73's from it's small block configuration, and again cruises nicely all day at 80 mph.
Interesting how Canadian Big Ponchos were really biased towards tall gearing when automatic equipped;
69 for example had all small blocks running 2.73 and 2.56 on all big blocks even the 390-427 but American models ran a wider gamut from 2.41 on 4 door sedan with base engine and 428HO's all coming with 3.42's, even the base 428's had 3.08's (all of these are the standard equipment axle, not optional ones).
I guess they felt Canadian buyers were more stingy about gas mileage than Americans. 2.73's though seem awful tall for someone who ordered the top dog 390-427. That must have been a very expensive engine option and I'd thing a performance oriented buyer who laid out many hundreds of 1969 dollars would be a bit disappointed by the lack of grunt off the line. I say a very expensive option because a 428 HO (also 390 horse) cost over $250 US and that was on a car that already came standard with a 400 with 290 as standard versus a Canadian Pontiac with a base six holer engine of only 155 horses, the Canadian 390 horse was probably at least $500?
Vincent, I'm a bit surprised the wagon has 2.73 gears, as 2.56 would have been standard with the 454. However, I've seen other ratios, as Big John Preikschat's 70 454 2+2 hardtop by Regina has 2.21 gears. He's idling at 60 mph.
The 454 Laurentian was 2.56, and cruised nicely all day at 80 mph. My 70 2+2 rag has the 2.73's from it's small block configuration, and again cruises nicely all day at 80 mph.
I too have that brochure and read that... Just brought in the wagon because I was curious.... Not sure where I got the 2:73 ratio but she does the 2:56's... Maybe it was a 2:73 in the other '70 wagon I have here at the house.... I have a 3:07-8 posi here from a '66 Caprice she may get. With the 700, I believe that will work well!
She does sound like she is lugging a little too hard at 1300... an extra few rpm's would sure help.
-- Edited by 67Poncho on Friday 14th of October 2016 04:42:43 PM
Interesting how Canadian Big Ponchos were really biased towards tall gearing when automatic equipped;
69 for example had all small blocks running 2.73 and 2.56 on all big blocks even the 390-427 but American models ran a wider gamut from 2.41 on 4 door sedan with base engine and 428HO's all coming with 3.42's, even the base 428's had 3.08's (all of these are the standard equipment axle, not optional ones).
I guess they felt Canadian buyers were more stingy about gas mileage than Americans. 2.73's though seem awful tall for someone who ordered the top dog 390-427. That must have been a very expensive engine option and I'd thing a performance oriented buyer who laid out many hundreds of 1969 dollars would be a bit disappointed by the lack of grunt off the line. I say a very expensive option because a 428 HO (also 390 horse) cost over $250 US and that was on a car that already came standard with a 400 with 290 as standard versus a Canadian Pontiac with a base six holer engine of only 155 horses, the Canadian 390 horse was probably at least $500?
As you know the Canadian Pontiac's (with 1970 being the last year) were Pontiac's sitting on a Chevrolet chassis and drivetrain. As such, the big Chevy's also had the tall gearing, so it's not a Canadian vs US thing.
I wish I would have grabbed a few more things off the 70 Safari Estate wagon I kind of parted out in 2009. The engine ended up in my Parisienne as an LS6, but I wish I could have harvested the disc brakes and the rear pan-hard bar. As you can see in the engine photo, it included the mid-year change to throttle cable instead of linkage.
I was hoping it was a posi diff, but wasn't that lucky. Hillar grabbed the rear wind deflector, it made it's way to Toronto in the trunk of the green/gold 70 2+2 he bought from me.
-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Friday 14th of October 2016 05:49:33 PM
I wish I would have grabbed a few more things off the 70 Safari Estate wagon I kind of parted out in 2009. The engine ended up in my Parisienne as an LS6, but I wish I could have harvested the disc brakes and the rear pan-hard bar. As you can see in the engine photo, it included the mid-year change to throttle cable instead of linkage.
I was hoping it was a posi diff, but wasn't that lucky. Hillar grabbed the rear wind deflector, it made it's way to Toronto in the trunk of the green/gold 70 2+2 he bought from me.
-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Friday 14th of October 2016 05:49:33 PM
AND? Why didn't you? Goodness, that one is rusty! Did you save the data tag? 3-seater? Options?
That makes sense 70 2+2, and I just looked at the impala driveline chart and they look the same, even the 69 SS with the 427-390 had 2.73 with the th400.
