Anyone interested in reproduction 427 emblems for 1969?

davepl · Poncho Master!

Anyone interested in reproduction 427 emblems for 1969?

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

That's not a bad price. Nice originals are apparently commanding over $1000/pr

68sd396rag · Poncho Master!

can you actually reproduce these without licensing?

gtodrive · Guru

davepl wrote:
If I can't find a good emblem, I will have my one good one duplicated, but it's not going to be cheap. I think 350-500 or so (and I really wouldn't pay more than that, I don't think). It doesn't come down much in volume, since they have to be 3d printed in metal one at a time. But the modelling costs get amortized over each piece I guess.
If they were $150 or so would anyone else want one? Or two I guess?

IF they were a high quality chromed reproduction with mounting studs (wouldnt Have to be painted), I would absolutely give $500 USD for a pair.

427carl · A Poncho Legend!

68sd396rag wrote:
can you actually reproduce these without licensing?

Would licensing be a issue with the Old GM gone and Pontiacs discontinued ?

davepl · Poncho Master!

68sd396rag wrote:
can you actually reproduce these without licensing?

No idea, actually. Could GM sue me? Anyone can sue anyone. Will I risk it? For a single pair (or pair per person) I for one would be honored to print and frame the Cease and Demand letter that actually explained the deep harm GM was experiencing as a result. I should probably send a courtesy notification that I'm doing it, give them the opportunity to protest, before I do so. But where to send it?

The only people that would be actually harmed would be hoarders, and they're not experiencing any harm because they don't sell anyway, they hoard. There's no -market- for 427 emblems or I'd be part of it. There are no sellers. Things are only "worth" anything when they trade hands at an agreed price, not when the sellers set an Ask price. If I could buy one, I likely would. Seems I can't.

That's different from reproducing Winters snowflake aluminum intakes or Rochester Fuel Injection setups. Since those exist for sale, the people that are selling them see their prices drop

68sd396rag · Poncho Master!

I have no idea how to answer the above question-I only asked because someone might get in trouble for it-Again I have no idea if you can or can't

Greaser · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

68sd396rag wrote:
I have no idea how to answer the above question-I only asked because someone might get in trouble for it-Again I have no idea if you can or can't

What Does Officially Licensed Mean?

http://realdealsteel.com/ft-2198-what-does-officially-licensed-mean.html

What does licensing cost?

We have all heard the saying Corporations dont pay taxes; their customers do!

That simply means that the more a corporation is taxed, the more they charge their customers for the products they sell to maintain profitability.

Thus, the end user (you) pays the taxes. It is no different with licensing. Most license fees are 8-10% of the sales price of the item.

If we (the licensor) sell you an item for $10, $1 of what you pay us is going to the licensor.

The higher price you pay for a licensed product does offer the customer some protections as well as a voice as discussed in the previous paragraphs.

Fake68 · Guru

Motorhead Jewelery can make these exactly using lost wax ceramic mold, casting process. I went through this about 6 years ago looking for 68 427 emblems... at that time it would have required about 13 pairs to amortize the tooling costs down to $350 per pair just to break even.

I was lucky and found a very nice pair for sale.... still looking for another single.

Gary
(you did get the picture and price of Steve's emblem correct?)

davepl · Poncho Master!

I did, thanks. His emblem would need to be restored for my purposes and I have no idea how to restore a pot metal emblem, so figured I should look for a better one, but none has come along!

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Fake68 wrote:

Motorhead Jewelery can make these exactly using lost wax ceramic mold, casting process. I went through this about 6 years ago looking for 68 427 emblems... at that time it would have required about 13 pairs to amortize the tooling costs down to $350 per pair just to break even.

I was lucky and found a very nice pair for sale.... still looking for another single.

Gary
(you did get the picture and price of Steve's emblem correct?)

This would seem to be the better solution, as it would be closer to how the originals were made.

I'm not an expert on 3D printing, but some 3D prints I've seen can have a layered or pixelated appearance, requiring some finishing before plating, and even then I'm not sure if the final product would be as good as a higher-quality molding process.

Perhaps the 3D printing technology has improved to the point of no visible quality issues, though, I'm not sure.

I would also be curious as to whether a 3D printed part would be as durable as a cast part.

Not offering advice, just musing...

davepl · Poncho Master!

Between just you and me, I'll likely put the original NOS pair from my black car onto the "real" 2+2 when it's done and put the repros on the black car, which is a clone. Seems only right.

This is my best used one (the one that came on the 2+2). He's got a 3D scanner but he's going to hand-model it, I guess. Depends on his artistic skill in large part. He said he'd be able to dial in some of the texture around the "CU IN" which to me is the test. Because some surfaces, like the V, are perfectly mirror smooth, and others are that texture.

I've got to risk this one in the mail though. I'll insure it for $250 but couldn't replace it if they lost it anyway!

Greaser · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

davepl wrote:
I've got to risk this one in the mail though. I'll insure it for $250 but couldn't replace it if they lost it anyway!

Caution about the mail.......if you ever had to make a claim from the post office (I did) and it's not as

easy as claiming $250. because it got lost or damaged. The Post office will require you to prove it's worth $250.00

by submitting a letter from an authorized appraiser stating the piece you lost is worth that amount.

Might be better to pay for a high end courier than the post office. Just my two cents on the subject.

davepl · Poncho Master!

UPS or FedEx for me on this one...

davepl · Poncho Master!

Coming along... I can spot a few minor differences but it's definitely close.

6_52 AM 2_1_2018 - Bitmap.png

-- Edited by davepl on Thursday 1st of February 2018 10:14:06 AM

davepl · Poncho Master!

Well here are the first two off the assembly line. Looks like they need some polishing and painting, but are promising lookin so far!

8_15 AM 2_26_2018 - Bitmap.png

Fake68 · Guru

Wow !! I'll eat my words on this one... I was not confident that they could get the surface finishes that nice. They look very good!
Gary

davepl · Poncho Master!

Thanks! I really pushed on the "mottled" surfaces. It's hard in 3D, I think he had to use some fancy "noise" function, but it's close enough. They also have the mounting studs I'm told, which was a lot of extra printing layers.

In reality I will put these on my tribute car and put the NOS set on the real car when it is done.

How hard is it to get the nuts off the back of an emblem once installed? I assumed the inner fender makes it nearly impossible, or can you actually get at them?

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Fake68 wrote:
Wow !! I'll eat my words on this one... I was not confident that they could get the surface finishes that nice. They look very good!
Gary

Ditto on that! They look really good.

What are the materials used for the 3D print? Were you planning on having them plated?

-- Edited by MC on Monday 26th of February 2018 01:27:52 PM

davepl · Poncho Master!

I forget if they're aluminum or stainless, but either way I should be able to polish them to a chrome-like shine on the flat edges. They are already polished fairly well I think!

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

davepl wrote:
I forget if they're aluminum or stainless, but either way I should be able to polish them to a chrome-like shine on the flat edges. They are already polished fairly well I think!

I think they look good already, and will surely look better with some polishing. The reason I asked about plating is that I'm wondering how well they will stand up to the elements if unplated. Stainless will generally stand up very well, especially the higher grades, but bare aluminum will show signs of corrosion if uncoated exposed to the elements - usually it just dulls and skins over, but there is also potential (pardon the pun) for a galvanic type reaction wherever it touches steel.

davepl · Poncho Master!

I think I went aluminum, being an order of magnitude cheaper than stainless. I wonder if clear coating them preserves the aluminum? Otherwise you're right you'd be often polishing the flat surfaces to keep them shiny.

You can certainly triple plate them with chrome, which I guess I could do as well!

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Plus one on them looking really good!

How many sets will you make? (You knew that question was coming from someone sooner or later...)

davepl · Poncho Master!

I've got the 3D model so now I could print an infinite number in plastic at home, or have a specialty shop print them in metal (which I can't do at home).

I don't know much about it but I wonder if, given the STL file, you can "mill" it. I have a small 3 axis mill but nothing fancy enough for this... but if you could email the STL file to a shop and they'd mill it, that'd be cool.

davepl · Poncho Master!

Here's the first one in metal! Next to my original. Should be clear which is which, but keep in mind you can't see both sides of the car at the same time!