"Canadian Muscle Cars American's Couldn't Buy"

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

"Canadian Muscle Cars American's Couldn't Buy"

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Great article and they didn't make a lot of mistakes like the US stories on our cars usually have.

One glaring error in this part though-

Full-size Canadian Pontiacs were built with Chevrolet chassis and engines, so you had Pontiac style without the Wide-Track underpinnings. The model names were different too, with the hierarchy consisting of Strato-Chief, Laurentian, Parisienne, and Grande Parisienne (the latter with Grand Prix influences) for much of the 1960s. Yes, it was possible to order an Astro-Flame 348 or Super-Flame 409, with the Astro-Jet 396 arriving mid-year 1965 and the Jet-Flame 427 the following year. In 1967, while Pontiac was phasing out the 2+2 performance model in the U.S., it introduced the buckets-and-console Parisienne 2+2 for Canada, the last word in full-size adventure cars. A six was standard but options up to 427/385 were available. The 2+2 lasted through 1970, with 390 horsepower available with the optional 454.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Pretty sure Diego has posted here before, I believe he was asking questions about Canadian muscle cars.

I have conversed with him over on the moparts board from time to time. He definitely tries to get his details correct, but he grew up in the US, so he wouldn't have the first hand experience that a lot of us have here.

Seems like a good dude overall, definitely a car guy.

If you guys want to post a list of corrections I could PM him over at Moparts and direct him to this thread. I'm sure he would want to know if he has some details incorrect.

I'll watch the thread and let him know if there are some corrections to make - he might want to join in on the conversation as well to expand his Canadian knowledge a little.

Just a suggestion, if anybody thinks that it's a bad idea let me know and I won't act on it.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I think it's a great idea. He sure has it a lot better than 99% of the stories written.

I remember him posting here and asking questions, yes. And he certainly seems like a great guy.

I think your suggestion is great.

I'm waiting to see if anyone catches his one obvious error.....!

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

The 396 part is of course in error for 1965 as we all know, who else would?

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

73SC wrote:
The 396 part is of course in error for 1965 as we all know, who else would?

Big blocks were only sold in low numbers here back then, so when they finally exhausted the 409 stock it was only about 3 months before 1966 model year changeover. No need to issue reams of revised manuals for potential 396 sales that would barely make a blip. Boy, in '66 GM Canada really let their hair down with L-72 & L-79s.

Diego · Veteran Member

Hi.....thanks to Marc for the heads-up.

So the 396 was never introduced for the Canadian market?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Not in 1965 apparently.

I learned that too after the start of Canadian Poncho. I think that was a major surprise to many of us here.

65 SD L79 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

did 1966 Canadian ponchos get L72 427 ?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

RE:

Diego · Veteran Member

RE: "Canadian Muscle Cars American's Couldn't Buy"

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I never thought to mention in my first reply, the Impala did for sure. My friend has a documented 66 SS L72.

And typically the Chev and Pontiac lines had the same powertrain lineup (with 68 being a weird exception with the 2 barrel 327 in the Pontiac, and no 307).

Diego · Veteran Member

Carl Stevenson wrote:
I never thought to mention in my first reply, the Impala did for sure. My friend has a documented 66 SS L72.

And typically the Chev and Pontiac lines had the same powertrain lineup (with 68 being a weird exception with the 2 barrel 327 in the Pontiac, and no 307).

Well, no Beaumont received the L78.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

For sure, and yet the Canadian Impalas, Novas, Camaros and Chevelles came with L78's. Maybe not as extensively as the US cars but we got them.

Like I say, I have yet to see proof of a Pontiac having a solid lifter engine but everything points to it being available whereas the Beaumonts and Acadians don't have any mention of it in any printed info I've ever seen.

I still hold out hope for an L72 Pontiac!

Ponchoheart · Addicted!

RE:

65 SD L79 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

RE: "Canadian Muscle Cars American's Couldn't Buy"

65 SD L79 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

the novas and chevelles got the solid lifter motors. Not even low hp big blocks in acadians

Diego · Veteran Member

Ponchoheart wrote:
Carl , just wanted to ask you a question , but I never realized that you could get an L78 or an LS6 engine in a Canadian built car ? I always heard that there were no documented solid lifter cars built 8n Canada ? Im so interested in the answer, Jeeze I would almost Call you , as everybody I know in the car hobby always , ALWAYS TOLD ME , that there were none of those cars built 8n Canada..... Thx Carl Bob

Unless I missed something, I don't think that's what he said.

Canadian Chevys may have received those engines, but not Canadian Pontiacs....except possibly the '66 big cars.

That's what was said?

-- Edited by Diego on Tuesday 7th of August 2018 08:35:28 PM

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

You could get triple carbed 348s on Canadian Pontiacs through 1961, but for 1962 the most power offered was the 250-horse 327. I'm not sure about the Canadian '62 Chevies as they had the option of importing them from the U.S. (though you paid duty prior to the Auto Pact). For '63 the 409s finally were going into domestic Chevrolets & Pontiacs. First year for 4-speeds on them as well. The Canadian 409s were available late into the '65 run because they trickled off the line so infrequently. In 1965 GM Canada would install the 350-horse 327s into Canadian-built Chevelles & Beaumonts & the 300-horse 327s into the Chevy II & Acadian (in the U.S. only 319 Chevy II's with 300 horse so imagine how rare in Canada).

For 1966 alone, the L-72 427 was offered in Canadian Chevrolets & Pontiacs, and the 350-horse 327s were available in the domestic Chevy II & Acadian. Meanwhile the Malibu SS & Beaumont Sport Deluxe offered the 360-horse 396 (no solid lifter Beaumonts or domestically produced Chevelles). After '66 the L-72 was dropped but would come back only for the U.S. production. In 1969 there were only seven L-72 big B-body cars imported into Canada. Supposedly twenty COPO Chevelles in '69 were imported, which seems like a high number, but I do know of 13 of them.

In 1970 you could go all the way up to 390 horses with the LS5 454 in big Chevies & Pontiacs, including the lowly Strato Chief, Laurentian & Bel Air Sport Coupes. The 2+2 outlasted the SS427 & bucket seat options in the Chevrolets, being produced as such through 1970.

455s were offered in Canadian-built full size Pontiacs 1971-75 before regressing to the 400 for '76. The downsized Pontiacs for '77 in the U.S. offered 400 Pontiacs but in Canada it topped out with the 350 Chevy.

In 1981 the Z28 in the U.S. came with a 350 & automatic, or a 305 & 4-speed. Only in Canada could you get an '81 Z28 with a 350 & 4-speed.

Another Canadian exclusive was the Mercury Meteor S-33 through 1970. From a brochure I found online it actually claims that a 4-speed was offered with the 429 4-barrel in '70, complete with a Hurst shifter (which is what Ford switched to for 1970).

Yet another was the 1971 Swinger 340. In the U.S. they dropped them after '70 & replaced them with the Demon 340, but due to loud protests from Western Canadian dealers they built 1971 Swinger 340s in 2 batches: a stripped down batch and a loaded batch. Demon 340s were also available.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Diego wrote:

Ponchoheart wrote:
Carl , just wanted to ask you a question , but I never realized that you could get an L78 or an LS6 engine in a Canadian built car ? I always heard that there were no documented solid lifter cars built 8n Canada ? Im so interested in the answer, Jeeze I would almost Call you , as everybody I know in the car hobby always , ALWAYS TOLD ME , that there were none of those cars built 8n Canada..... Thx Carl Bob

Unless I missed something, I don't think that's what he said.

Canadian Chevys may have received those engines, but not Canadian Pontiacs....except possibly the '66 big cars.
That's what was said?

-- Edited by Diego on Tuesday 7th of August 2018 08:35:28 PM

Correct, I only know we could buy them here at our dealer. I don't know where they were built but locally I know of an L78 Nova Canadian car and an L78 Chevelle Canadian car.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

CdnGMfan wrote:

For 1966 alone, the L-72 427 was offered in Canadian Chevrolets & Pontiacs

Cam, do you have any knowledge of an L72 Pontiac? I convinced they exist but it's like Bigfoot, there seems to be no irrefutable evidence. I wonder if George has ever documented one for anyone?

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Carl, I seem to remember in the Old Car Autotrader back in the early to mid 1980s there was a 1966 Grande Parisienne coupe with a 425-horse 427 & 4-speed that looked completely stock and in restored condition. I have also heard of a similar car with the 390-horse 427 in a 1990s High-Performance Pontiac magazine, plus a 396 4-speed.

Did I see documentation or talk with the seller? No... It could have been original, or it could have been a transplant, though the ad didn't give that impression.

I figured they were possible but as rare as hen's teeth. Like Aubrey Bruneau's '63 Pontiac 409 4-speed Safari. Or the documented 1 of 1 '64 Parisienne Safari 409 400-horse.

Oh, to go back in time with a sack of cash to the local Pontiac-Buick dealer and order up the ultimate machine. It would be tough to pick just one.

DonSSDD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I don't think Aubrey's 63 wagon was born with a 409, seem to remember he said that when it was 4 sale. 63's had available 400HP and 425HP solid lifter 409's.

The 66 brochure lists a 390 and 425HP version of the 427, the 67 lists a 385HP 427.

-- Edited by DonSSDD on Wednesday 8th of August 2018 02:58:05 AM

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I suspected Aubrey's '63 was a built car. That 1 of 1 '64 factory 400-horse 409 4-speed wagon is astonishing though.

Dad used to say, "the more horses you have, the more you have to feed them."

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Diego and all, thanks for the interesting discussion. I really enjoy hearing about the cool and sometimes quirky information about Canadian Pontiacs, and what made them unique. Also the differences between US and Canadian Chevys is quite interesting as well.

Good discussion!