Where did this 327 originate

ROSIES CAR · Addicted!

Where did this 327 originate

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

The casting has to be 3914678 not 39146789. The engine is from Flint and it was installed in a 1968 vehicle built in Oshawa. Its a 2 bolt main bearing engine. What did Oshawa build in 1968, I'd say B body and A body cars. I do find it interesting that an an Oshawa car has a Flint engine so it could be from a higher horsepower application.

What did previous owner say?

ROSIES CAR · Addicted!

Thanks
Sorry about the extra nine typo. The elderly fellow I picked it up from told me a story of his neighbor who wrote off his corvette and he acquired the engine and then it sat in his garage for many years. But I could not find any site that backed his claim. I did find some info that it could have been an impala engine, and while back a fellow was selling the same 327 with the same code and numbers out of a Parisienne. I am leaning towards the latter beginning.

It did have a forged large journal #4672 crank in it. Runs great in my car right now.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

The 181144526 tells the story really. 181 means Chevrolet, 1968, Oshawa, the remaining numbers are from the Vehicle Identification Number of the vehicle installed in.

IN 1967 and onward all Corvette small blocks would have that V code for Flint and the casting was also used for 300 hp and 375 HP Corvettes in 1968 so that's where the yarn is coming from. Add in that HH code was a 1965 Corvette code. Corvettes were not built in Oshawa...obviously eh!

So unraveling the codes is not straight forward with Canadian cars and engines because all the information available is US dominated.

The V Flint code is telling me the engine is a higher horsepower engine because McKinnon in St. Catharines didn't make those applications for Oshawa builds normally a Canadian car is coded with a K for McKinnon.

The HH code does not show up on any US decode sites so I'm going to deduce it is a Canadian code for B body Pontiac, aka, a Parisienne.

So in the end I'd say the engine came from a 1968 Parisienne (or other B Body Pontiac) 275 HP 4bbl 327.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

One of the things I love about this site is how much knowledge there is here and how willing everybody is to share that knowledge to help somebody out!

It amazes me how many people who say their car has a Corvette engine when they are selling it or talking about it. It happens so much that I never believe anybody when they tell me that. All the time I'm wondering where all the poor Corvettes are sitting around without engines... wink

68 Grande · Guru

Interesting info on trying to decipher the origin of this engine. Although not quite related to this thread, there was an indisutrial 327 that showed up in Ontario built Massey Ferguson 510 combines. We had one in our farm and from what my father told me, they were 4 bolt mains. (however this might not be the case in terms of 4 bolt mains, they could have had just larger bearings? I am not entirely sure as I have heard GM did not make a 327 4 bolt)

Anyways, I have never seen one apart so I cant verify that but that 327 was a powerful little engine. I was a small kid back then and I can still remember the two straight exhaust pipes glowing bright red at night when the engine was working. You had to be careful thrashing because if the feeder house took too much material in and plug, the engine would not stall and could end up burning the drive belts right off if you didnt disengage the drive. Anyone ever ran across one of these 327s? Not many are in the combine junkyard apparently as they were removed and found new homes after the life of the combine was exhausted. Sorry for sidetracking the thread!

-- Edited by 68 Grande on Thursday 27th of September 2018 07:51:55 AM

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Love hearing this kind of information 68 Grande, I guess its in my nature to do research and come up with logical explanations on these details.

The 327 was also used in marine applications so being used in farm equipment isn't really a surprise , afterall it was and still is one of the most favourite and pound for pound powerful small blocks ever made.

McKinnon held the initial license to build these engines in Canada and in fact became a subsiduray of GM then today it is actually GM Powertrain.

I have never seen any information to suggest that a 327 was produced either in Canada or USA with 4 bolt main bearing caps for automotive or truck applications. That's not to say that GM Canada didn't spec a casting with enough metal to install the 4 bolts for heavy duty farm equipment and afterall Masey Ferguson was a huge Canadian manufacturer and in those days could likely work with GM on getting the engine design they specified.

I have been fortunate enough to take a trip on Lady Eaton's 1922 Motor Launch in Gloucester Pool and up the Severn River in Ontario and it was re powered with a Marine 327 in the mid sixties. I understand that the marine application intake manifold is as good as it gets for power and flow and is easily transferred to a hot rodded 327 for road use.

Image result for Severn lodge launch

So now we are really off topic smile

-- Edited by 73SC on Thursday 27th of September 2018 09:47:04 AM

HK1837 · Addicted!

Nice one! The McKinnon plant didn't manufacture all blocks, heads, intakes so this may be why it has the Flint V8 plant assembled bottom end in it rather than Tonawanda. Are the heads 3947040 Fuelies? The casting mark looks like they are, which means they are Tonawanda heads and it probably has a Tonawanda 4BBL intake as well. This is because McKinnon didn't make Fuelies in 1968 and didn't make 4BBL intakes either. Not sure why Flint V8 built the bottom end though, as at this time Tonawanda were building L78 (327/250hp) engines for the Canadian Chevrolets and Pontiacs and the L78 short motor is identical to the L30 (275hp).

I agree with 73SC that it is probably an L30 (327/275hp) which it has to be with those heads if they are original IF IT IS A 327. The other possibility for that year is an L48 (350 295hp), and one thing that hints to me it may be is the L48 in 1969 was a HH suffix, this is the suffix for the 1969 L48 with TH transmission in full size Chevrolet. Did anything get fitted with an L48 late in 1968 Model year at Oshawa?? This may also explain why Flint built the short engine.

Beaumont4008 · Uber Guru

73SC wrote:
The 181144526 tells the story really. 181 means Chevrolet, 1968, Oshawa, the remaining numbers are from the Vehicle Identification Number of the vehicle installed in.
IN 1967 and onward all Corvette small blocks would have that V code for Flint and the casting was also used for 300 hp and 375 HP Corvettes in 1968 so that's where the yarn is coming from. Add in that HH code was a 1965 Corvette code. Corvettes were not built in Oshawa...obviously eh!
So unraveling the codes is not straight forward with Canadian cars and engines because all the information available is US dominated.
The V Flint code is telling me the engine is a higher horsepower engine because McKinnon in St. Catharines didn't make those applications for Oshawa builds normally a Canadian car is coded with a K for McKinnon.
The HH code does not show up on any US decode sites so I'm going to deduce it is a Canadian code for B body Pontiac, aka, a Parisienne.
So in the end I'd say the engine came from a 1968 Parisienne (or other B Body Pontiac) 275 HP 4bbl 327.

would Canadian built pontiacs be stamped with 181 ? I thought Oshawa also built the impala. Could be from a Oshawa built Impala ?

HK1837 · Addicted!

In Australia we got 1968 Impala and Parisienne which were Canadian build but CKD and assembled in Australia. The cars share the same driveline and same engine number suffix (3Q I think it was). These are 250hp 327 though, but my point is as the Canadian assembled Parisienne and Impala shared the same chassis and driveline I imagine the engine number suffix would be the same if HH was for Parisienne it probably would be for Impala too.

I found HH at this link, not sure how accurate the site is though. It lists as 1968 full size 327/275hp with Powerglide.
www.oldride.com/library/1968_chevrolet_impala.html

I also wonder if the codes differ in 1968 for non-AIR spec engines as per 1967. USA went to AIR across the board in 1968 so there is no different engine number suffixes or different carbs (eg 1967 Quadrajets 702 are non-AIR, 703 are AIR) like 1967. So it is possible HH is the non-AIR version of HF or something like that. For example in 1967 Camaro the AIR L30 327/275hp Powerglide was MN, the non-AIR version was MM. So if Canada didn't get AIR in 1968 this might be why HH is elusive as the USA-centric Web info doesn't recognise it.

Magician40 · Poncho Master!

Hey Ray, The boat you went for a ride in is a 40ft. Ditchburn owned by Bill at Severn Lodge. Known these people for many years and I am the one who built and replace the old original engine. Small world.
Brian