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Post Info TOPIC: 409 truck engine - opinions/conversation/recommendations needed


Poncho Master!

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409 truck engine - opinions/conversation/recommendations needed


I have been presented an opportunity to get a 409 truck engine that is for better words a core.

I know there are a few members that probably have forgotten more about 409s than I know about big blocks.

My questions are:

Is this a buildable engine considering the deep valve reliefs?

If it is, what pistons can be used? Strictly heavy cast truck pistons (like from Egge) or are there other options?

I can't afford a ton of money to build and fortunately can do the heads myself as well as all assembly.

Again all feedback is appreciated.

 

Thanks,



-- Edited by dcneric on Tuesday 30th of October 2018 11:34:48 AM

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Eric - Regina, SK

The Projects:

1935 Chev 3 Window Std Coupe

1957 Chev 2dr 

1967 Mustang Convertible

1969 Firebird 350HO Convertible

1969 Camaro X11-V8

1969 GTO sold

1969 2+2 was a 396

1969 2+2 427

1978 Chev ShortBox StepSide 4x4

1980 Harley FXWG

1986 CJ7 Jeep

 



Poncho Master!

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Which block and heads, what are the numbers and dates? A 409 truck block is very desirable and can be built for a lot of power, depending on your budget and objectives. You will likely need a car intake, carb, distributor, water pump, truck exhaust manifolds are likely fine. What will you want to put it in?

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63 Pariesienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. Parting out a 63 Parisienne convertible.

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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What vintage is this truck 409 and what kind of truck did it come out of. As a teen in the mid seventies i remember a cousin of mine having a 1960's Chev dump truck and him showing me the motor. Even then i was impressed seeing those W shaped heads. Good luck with the build and keep us informed on it. 



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1957 Pontiac Pathfinder Deluxe sedan restored 261 six

1974 Chevrolet Caprice Estate wagon low milage original 400 V-8



Poncho Master!

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Sorry no info on the block and heads. If anything I own, the 409 would end between the rails of my 57. Its $200 and looks like a pos. One head off, seized etc,

What should I ask for in information? Casting numbers from heads and block? There was a cast iron 4bbl intake with it as well. I dont recall any exhaust manifolds.

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Eric - Regina, SK

The Projects:

1935 Chev 3 Window Std Coupe

1957 Chev 2dr 

1967 Mustang Convertible

1969 Firebird 350HO Convertible

1969 Camaro X11-V8

1969 GTO sold

1969 2+2 was a 396

1969 2+2 427

1978 Chev ShortBox StepSide 4x4

1980 Harley FXWG

1986 CJ7 Jeep

 



Poncho Master!

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Casting number off back of block will tell if its 348 or 409. 409s were only made 62-65 and their heads were usable for good H.P. if its a 409, for $200, buy it. Go to 348-409 site for casting numbers.

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63 Pariesienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. Parting out a 63 Parisienne convertible.

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



Poncho Master!

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Thanks. Will do.

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Eric - Regina, SK

The Projects:

1935 Chev 3 Window Std Coupe

1957 Chev 2dr 

1967 Mustang Convertible

1969 Firebird 350HO Convertible

1969 Camaro X11-V8

1969 GTO sold

1969 2+2 was a 396

1969 2+2 427

1978 Chev ShortBox StepSide 4x4

1980 Harley FXWG

1986 CJ7 Jeep

 



Poncho Master!

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I should have said 409 truck heads can make good hp. If its a 348, their are some of their heads that are good and some not.

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63 Pariesienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. Parting out a 63 Parisienne convertible.

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



Veteran Member

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weren't most trucks with that gen big block actually 348's?

If I read that correct, $200 seems almost too good to be true.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red on black (std) interior
no engine, transmission, or wheel option

1:411 1970 Firebird Formulas originally sold in Canada

Luke 23: 39-43 / Ephesians 2: 8-9  / 1 Corinthians 2:12-14 / 2 Timothy 3:1-5;12



Poncho Master!

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348s came out in 58 for both cars and trucks. Trucks had lower compression, about 7.5, via the truck heads and via 2 areas scooped out of the block at the top of the cylinder bore. In 61, 409s came out in very limited numbers in cars, then they came out in trucks and cars in 62. 409 car blocks are worth a lot of money, so truck blocks are attractive from a cost point of view and can still be upgraded to lots of hp. Later truck 348s had heads that can be used for power with a bit of work and they and the truck 409s had only one scoop (called an eyebrow) in the cylinder wall. If its really a 409, for $200 Id buy it regardless of condition. If all else fails, its a cheap piece of art for the man cave. Ive seen them painted up and used as a mailbox.



-- Edited by DonSSDD on Wednesday 31st of October 2018 11:48:58 AM

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63 Pariesienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. Parting out a 63 Parisienne convertible.

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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DonSSDD wrote:

 If all else fails, its a cheap piece of art for the man cave. Ive seen them painted up and used as a mailbox.


________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No kidding, who wouldn't want a nicely dressed W series sitting on an engine stand it their garage, runner or not. 

 

Image result for 409 engine on stand



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Ray White, Toronto ON

1973 LeMans 454 "Astro-Jet"

Built March 9, 1973 - Oshawa ON

Tweet me @BigRaySays






Poncho Master!

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Posts: 1986
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i know I will get argument , but financially both 348s and 409s are expensive to work on, you better have deep pockets. yes lots of people are making power from both truck and car blocks, but again cost. They look neat but a decent small block or and big block can clean their clock. I have four of these things two car and two trucks and I can personally tell you I would not spend big money on a truck engine and the car engines are more for show than go , its over ten years of putting things together.



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Poncho Master!

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No argument from me, for dollars per hp, you cant beat a sbc or bb. Like anything to do with drag racing, your wallet determines how fast you will go. The cost of doing a truck or car 409 with the same hp and torque will be similar, but the upfront cost of the truck block will be less for the truck block.

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63 Pariesienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. Parting out a 63 Parisienne convertible.

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



Poncho Master!

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biggrinbiggrin, last truck I picked up was actually three motors in parts it was a thousand bucks mint crank was worth it, the conversion of a car block to a long rod ross piston job , priceless



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Poncho Master!

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Casting numbers as provided:
Block - 3798962
Heads - 3819333
Intake - 3770088

Owner is adamant that it is a 409 but the web indicates 348 for the block casting number.

I will check the engine out in more detail next Saturday when I go pickup a parts car.

aaand it looks like the price went up to $400.



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Eric - Regina, SK

The Projects:

1935 Chev 3 Window Std Coupe

1957 Chev 2dr 

1967 Mustang Convertible

1969 Firebird 350HO Convertible

1969 Camaro X11-V8

1969 GTO sold

1969 2+2 was a 396

1969 2+2 427

1978 Chev ShortBox StepSide 4x4

1980 Harley FXWG

1986 CJ7 Jeep

 



Poncho Master!

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Posts: 1986
Date:

if you know nothing about 09s or 348s do your research, there are several good publications of how to build these things the right way, and having deep pockets was no joke



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Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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What side of engine is the dip stick??? Passenger side is 409, drivers side it's a 348!!!!

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I joined the PROCRASTINATOR club last year,we still haven't had a meeting yet.    !!!!!!!! BLACKSTOCK Ont.



Poncho Master!

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You can get a 348 with a passenger side dipstick so this is not a deciding factor. 65wagon is correct on cost to make hp on any W.
check out the numbers on 348-409. I think 333s were truck only and are small port. Small port heads only came out in 63 for a 409. Get pics of the casting numbers and date codes. 409s had an X cast on the front of the driver side block but so did some newer 348s I believe. If its a seized 348, Id buy it for $200 but not for $400.

The value here still gets back to how complete it is and exactly what condition it is, and is it junk or not.



-- Edited by DonSSDD on Thursday 1st of November 2018 07:04:33 PM

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63 Pariesienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. Parting out a 63 Parisienne convertible.

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



Poncho Master!

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One other thing which you would likely do anyway is check the stamping in front of the driver side head. It has date coding like a small block of this era, it will tell you what it was built as since some car and truck blocks used the same Casting numbers.



-- Edited by DonSSDD on Thursday 1st of November 2018 07:10:49 PM

__________________

63 Pariesienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. Parting out a 63 Parisienne convertible.

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



Poncho Master!

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Intake likely  3770083, not 3770088- its a car 61 348 block and intake and truck heads.  



-- Edited by DonSSDD on Thursday 1st of November 2018 07:27:01 PM

__________________

63 Pariesienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. Parting out a 63 Parisienne convertible.

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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to tease Big Ray. i had a 409 sitting in the frame rails of my cj7 jeep for a while till a friend of mine decided he wanted it more then me. he did say it was not cheap to build.

2012-04-08 003.JPG



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sTevE

55 GMC, 53 Pontiac Sedan Delivery (for sale), 70 Pontiac 2+2 rag



Poncho Master!

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Posts: 1986
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I was ready to put it in the engine bay and fire it up , now im gonna tear it back done to change it over to different rods and pistons, I was oh so close002 (3).jpg



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