73SC wrote:I just don't get this shift to 4x4's and crossovers.
I'm with you on that. They are just following the market which says that SUVs and crossovers are popular. Ford and GM are going to stop building sedans so they can focus on popular (and profit-rich) SUVs and pickups.
I can see the utility of AWD and extra space for "stuff", but I still prefer a car with low centre of gravity and better handling. I've heard some people (mostly women admittedly) say they like being up high so they can see traffic ahead of them better.
What most don't seem to know (by the way I see them driven regularly) is that being up high also means "easier to tip over". I check the twitter feeds for traffic conditions occasionally and have noticed what seems a relatively high number of vehicles flipping over in what seem like relatively minor accidents - like rear-enders and fender bender level. All the flipped ones I see are SUVs. It's just anecdotal, but I honestly think a lot of drivers don't consider that these things are less stable than a car, but don't truly understand it until it's too late.
Here's one that happened just this morning locally:
And another from last week:
I seem to be seeing this more and more lately.
-- Edited by MC on Thursday 13th of December 2018 05:24:42 PM
just my 2 cents,depends where you are .In thunder bay theres 6 months of winter, if theres 6 inches of wet snow a car with 4 inches clearance isn't going anywhere. My wife,daughter,daughter in law, son in law all own suv,s.I own a sierra 4x4 pickup and a suburban with a plow, my son drives an H3 hummer.My wife volunteers at the food bank and all the elderly women love when she picks them up as the vehicle is so much easier to enter-exit than a car.
I get it, I do. I've had the opportunity to put a lot of miles on several SUVs and they are great when you get a lot of snow. My ideal all-around vehicle would be a regular car with extra ground clearance and awd but still a reasonable center of gravity. Subaru used to make an Outback sedan that satisfied that criteria, but it didn't sell because it didn't look like a truck.
Down in the southern US they still sell tons of awd SUVs, even though many of those places don't get a lick of snow... It's all about the image IMHO. But yes, I agree it depends on where you live. Like if I lived in northern Alberta, for example, you can be sure I'd own a big 4wd pickup for all the snow, but where I live, it's not necessary.
I think 73SC was talking about premium brands like Bentley and Porsche having SUVs in their lineup when they had no such thing for decades.
That's all I was getting at. Not trying to bash an entire segment. But I have seen more upside down vehicles in the past few years than I saw for the previous 20.
What most don't seem to know (by the way I see them driven regularly) is that being up high also means "easier to tip over". I check the twitter feeds for traffic conditions occasionally and have noticed what seems a relatively high number of vehicles flipping over in what seem like relatively minor accidents - like rear-enders and fender bender level. All the flipped ones I see are SUVs. It's just anecdotal, but I honestly think a lot of drivers don't consider that these things are less stable than a car, but don't truly understand it until it's too late.
... another factor, in my opinion, is the false sense of security these vehicles give the driver. I've seen MANY 4x4/AWD SUVs and cross-overs in the ditch. A bad driver can't make a good vehicle travel safely.
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Prince Edward Island
'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.
What most don't seem to know (by the way I see them driven regularly) is that being up high also means "easier to tip over". I check the twitter feeds for traffic conditions occasionally and have noticed what seems a relatively high number of vehicles flipping over in what seem like relatively minor accidents - like rear-enders and fender bender level. All the flipped ones I see are SUVs. It's just anecdotal, but I honestly think a lot of drivers don't consider that these things are less stable than a car, but don't truly understand it until it's too late.
... another factor, in my opinion, is the false sense of security these vehicles give the driver. I've seen MANY 4x4/AWD SUVs and cross-overs in the ditch. A bad driver can't make a good vehicle travel safely.
Yup! Agree 100%... see lots of them being overdriven in bad conditions. Everything's fine until something goes wrong, then it's too late.
While I do see the need for a pickup truck or SUV in Canada I was referring to these ultra high end brands going SUV. For me I've been considering downsizing and going with a coupe of some description and keeping a pick up or full sized SUV as well. Now that it is just me I don' t really see a need for a family type sedan either but then my brand of choice has just killed off the XTS and CT6 so these defunct Cadillac sedans are bound to present some screaming discounts on the used car market assuming as GM says nobody wants them.
Sorry Ray...just looks like another SUV on the road as they all look alike (although higher $$$$) Does nothing for me...even with HP. Image ...yes....cool..not so much.... As for the 4x4's..drivers cause the accidents...not the vehicles or roads. If 30.000 can make it down the road and 1 crashes......is it the road...or the driver???
Back in the day when they had a BGP drivers skid school at Oakville I spent the half day in the classroom and the afternoon in the car on the skid pad. The most important part of a skid is the second skid. You crank the wheel to avoid something but most often that is all that is done..... disaster..
You have to catch the second skid at just the right time.
Comment from the instructor.... come on Mr Ice Racer you can do it... try it again. The name Hank Devries comes to mind as the first instructor for the course, later Gary Magwood became involved. . dont know that it is still running.
Best day of my driving escapades. Cliff
-- Edited by oshawacliff on Saturday 15th of December 2018 10:50:58 AM
I took the BP skid control school in Oakville back in '74, skipped a day of high school to do it. CASC sedan racer Craig Fisher was the instructor, used new Ford Galaxie 500's with bald tires and he had a switch to lock the rear brakes. Great learning experience for a car crazy teenager.
-- Edited by Jonno on Saturday 15th of December 2018 06:42:46 PM
Saw a swedish program years ago comparing audi's- awd and fwd, with and without snow tires driving in snow. The awd won on acceleration and hill climbing, the fwd won on cornering and stopping, if the tires were the same. It was all about the weight when it comes to a skid and stopping and the awd weighed about 500 lbs more than the fwd.
4wd/awd is great for deep snow, going up hills, and for acceleration, stopping and skidding, weak, high center of gravity and lots of weight, they tip over easy. The trucks and suv's also have a tendency to have less/no weight over the rear wheels. Just slow down when driving one, especially a pickup with no weight in the bed. A 2wd pickup with a bunch of weight will go through a lot of snow, add a set of chains and they'll go anywhere. I run my 4wd extended cab with about 500 lbs in the bed for the winter.
I much prefer my fwd with 4 snows for most highway driving, significantly more stable than the pickup, but I grab the pickup and slow down when I have to go anywhere in deep snow.
Many people with a awd or 4wd 4 door pickup or suv drive them like a car or faster in winter conditions, 6000 lbs of weight, too much speed and a skid and it quickly becomes a spectator sport trying to stay on the road.
The high center of gravity and the weight means they go upside down easy too, even on dry pavement. The person in that Rav 4 upside down on the Halifax Harbour bridge must have left a large brown spot on their seat?
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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. 1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada
Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic
Saw this today driving around in the sand and salt. A Mclaren 570S
The license plate is in good shape!
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Prince Edward Island
'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.
Friend of mine had a new beetle, plate was U BugMe. He used to tow a trailer with it and when he hauled stuff to the dump, he had some interesting conversations when they ask for his plate number.
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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. 1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada
Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic
