Would you fly in a Boeing 737 Max 8?

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

Would you fly in a Boeing 737 Max 8?

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I don't know enough about it yet to make a decision whether or not to fly in one, but it seems Canadian airlines aren't convinced that it's enough of an issue to ground them yet. Also, I wonder how many flights have been completed without a problem so far?

I thought I heard in a news report that that system can be deactivated, but if the pilots haven't had sufficient training or clarity of thought in the situation, that they may not have known how to turn it off, or may not have thought that this system is causing the problem in order to make the decision to turn it off.

I'm sure more will come out in the next few weeks that will give us a clearer view of the situation...

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Air Canada, WestJet & Sunwing are the Canadian airlines with Boeing Max 8 aircraft. Sunwing announced late yesterday they're grounding their Max 8's.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Maybe I'm too trusting and nonchalant. I have no fears when I fly. Religious discussions are banned here so I won't go into detail about when I don't worry! And crazy thing is, I'm terrified of heights.

I always remind myself, it's rare to be injured when a jet crashes!

2drpost · Uber Guru

i would not get on any plane that is based out of what is a basically 3rd world country.

bjburnout · Uber Guru

As of 12 noon Garneau has grounded all 737 Max 8 in Canada and banned any flyovers.

As for flying on a 3 rd world airline I would not have a problem. I worked in the industry for

12 years and flew all over Asia on 3 rd world aircraft and never experienced a problem.

A noted aviation consultant mentioned yesterday there are approx 94,000 commercial flights daily

in the world and chances of this happening to you are infinitesimal.

We may be heading to the tip of South America next year.....no problem.

MC · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

737 max 8s grounded in Canada

65 SD L79 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

if I cant get there by car or boat I aint goin

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

They are pretty much all grounded now. But I bet you could still be safe flying on one as it stands today They all probably know the exact issue now, and the solution to mitigate it, should it occur.

2 accidents with that great loss of life are too much for sure. But I bet if you were to tally up all the hours and miles flown on the max series, the two crashes probably represent a minuscule risk.

Still..

65Camino · Uber Guru

Im curious why anyone would be thinking or worrying about this when they are not flying on one ?

Pontiacanada · A Poncho Legend!

They don't come or go from PEI.

I usually just fly nonstop to Pearson T.O. so I'm not worried.

I love taking a plane!

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I don't fly that much anymore, but a number of years ago I'd flown on pretty much everything that was in the air.

I've had my share of mishaps, including hitting a tall tree when coming in for a landing in the NWT in a DC3 back in 1984. The pilot thought the runway at a drill site was shorter than it was, and was coming in very low. I kind of wondered what was up as the trees looked like they were getting pretty close to the wings, then THWAP, we hit a tall one with the fuselage.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

I guess one could worry about a Max crashing on top of you!

65Camino wrote:
Im curious why anyone would be thinking or worrying about this when they are not flying on one ?

DonSSDD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I wouldnt fly on one, too much like self driving car technology and I dont see how you make it perfect for all situations and weather conditions. Sensors and software fail?

Youd think there would be a way to turn it off in an emergency (like when the software is taking you to the ground) but no one has stepped up to say that is possible? The fault for these crashes will come out, was it Boeing or pilot error? Either way, 330 people are dead.

The odds of a max 8 crashing were much higher after 2 crashes of the 3500 planes flying (thats the number I heard) and the small number of flights a new plane could have made?

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

From what I've read today the Max 8 was designed with bigger engines than the old 737 which (because of their placement on the wings) can cause the plane to nose up and stall. Boeing installed software to prevent this. One small issue; They forgot to tell pilots they did this and only mention it in the flight manual (which it sounds like many pilots don't read). Pilots without this knowledge wouldn't know that this software is causing a problem and therefore wouldn't know how to disable it.

Pontiacanada · A Poncho Legend!

Canadian Poncho wrote:
From what I've read today the Max 8 was designed with bigger engines than the old 737 which (because of their placement on the wings) can cause the plane to nose up and stall. Boeing installed software to prevent this. One small issue; They forgot to tell pilots they did this and only mention it in the flight manual (which it sounds like many pilots don't read). Pilots without this knowledge wouldn't know that this software is causing a problem and therefore wouldn't know how to disable it.

See my post in this thread: https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t65386218/2-brothers-take-road-trip-in-67-buick-skylark/

It very sad that Boeing's actions resulted in deadly circumstances.

bjburnout · Uber Guru

DonSSDD wrote:

Youd think there would be a way to turn it off in an emergency (like when the software is taking you to the ground) but no one has stepped up to say that is possible? The fault for these crashes will come out, was it Boeing or pilot error? Either way, 330 people are dead.
___________________

The Seattle TV stations have had comprehensive coverage since Boeing is based there.
Larry Nance (NTSB/737 pilot -retired) says it is more a pilot training problem not an aircraft one.
There is a two switch control on the pedestal (between pilot and first officer) to disable the MCAS.
Apparently the training in US and Canada includes this step but questionable in other countries.

-- Edited by bjburnout on Thursday 14th of March 2019 08:50:30 AM

dualquadpete · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

70 SS ACADIAN wrote:
if I cant get there by car or boat I aint goin

Here here!!!! Both feet on "Terra Firma" or I ain't going !!! Not so sure about boat either, not a very good swimmer, & also get sea sick!!! Car works for me too!!!

DonSSDD · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

bjburnout wrote:
DonSSDD wrote:

Youd think there would be a way to turn it off in an emergency (like when the software is taking you to the ground) but no one has stepped up to say that is possible? The fault for these crashes will come out, was it Boeing or pilot error? Either way, 330 people are dead.
___________________

The Seattle TV stations have had comprehensive coverage since Boeing is based there.
Larry Nance (NTSB/737 pilot -retired) says it is more a pilot training problem not an aircraft one.
There is a two switch control on the pedestal (between pilot and first officer) to disable the MCAS.
Apparently the training in US and Canada includes this step but questionable in other countries.

-- Edited by bjburnout on Thursday 14th of March 2019 08:50:30 AM

BJ, Ive wondered if that was the case but cant understand why this hasnt been said by Boeing, FAA, Transport Canada, or say Air Canada?

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

I think the problem with disabling the MCAS is the risk of the plane nosing up and stalling.

bjburnout · Uber Guru

Canadian Poncho wrote:
I think the problem with disabling the MCAS is the risk of the plane nosing up and stalling.

That would then be a pilot issue. Many 2nd and 3rd world pilots do not have the same level of competence as those

from the US, Canada, UK, Germany, France etc.

An experienced commentator stated most major airline pilots from these leading countries grew up flying from single engine

Cessnas and on up. Many, many are ex air force.

Everything that could happen and wasn't fatal just improved the breed.

They got used to confusing circumstances and later moving up the ranks to bigger aircraft called on that experience to aid in their training and awareness of all things to do with flying. Many 2nd and 3rd world pilots did not experience this personal evolution.

IMHO - the fact that the MCAS can be disabled and wasn't sure puts suspicion in my mind to causation here.

Approx 350 737 Max aircraft have been grounded. They have all been flying since the Lion Air disaster last October.

To my knowledge there have not been incidents with the MCAS until now, certainly not fatal ones.

The number of flights operated by these 350 aircraft since last October would be staggering.

(5 months = 150 days x 10 flights per day x 350 aircraft)

That's approx 525,000 flights without incident until now.

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

I heard they found a stabilizer in the wreckage that matched the position of the one found in the Indonesian crash thus solidifying the theory they both crashed for the same reason. What I don't like is the fact Boeing put bigger engines on the 737 Max thus changing the flight characteristics of the plane (increasing the chances of a nose up scenario) and instead of going back to the drawing board designed a piece of software that is supposed to deal with this potential. Now it appears the software had bugs causing it to nose down the plane when it didn't need to. The experts are saying there is too much going on during a takeoff for any pilot (regardless of experience) to determine the MCAS is acting up and then make the decision to disable it.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Well, a few of videos to help us visualize the plane and it's performance.
A full fuel and passenger load certainly changes things. But to my eye, it looks like a very high performing plane.

https://youtu.be/roXhOHMHRWo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tNbMXJ-WoQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLRSUO2dRyY

Latest from Juan Brown,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgkmJ1U2M_Q

bjburnout · Uber Guru

Excellent videos - thanx Mark. The 737 Max is an incredible aircraft as seen in the first few videos.

The last one explaining the horizontal stabilizer and it's operation and pilot training/awareness should be on main stream TV

but unfortunately the reporters want sensationalism and not the truth.

mfleury · Poncho Master!

me if I can,t drive I don,t go