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Poncho Master!

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Richmond 5 and 6 speeds


There is a post about putting a Tremec or a Richmond in a 66 in the Lounge area, I'm linking to a post about doing this in a 62 Chev posted by a real expert, Paul/PVS409 on 348-409. I thought a link to his post here might be of interest to others. If you find this helpful, I'd suggest you copy and save the pics as they sometimes disappear.

Paul does perfect work, you will likely find the whole linked post of interest.

 

http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/transmission.40602/#post-435854

Excerpts

A Richmond 5 speed will fit with minimal changes to the black 4 speed tunnel cover(moves back less than a inch) used on 61 to 63 Chevys.
I have a Richmond 5 speed in my 62 SS 409 convertible using the factory SS shift plate. This Richmond 5 speed was originally installed in a 62 Chevy 409 bubble top with a round factory boot on the factory 4 speed tunnel cover.

A Richmond 6 speed will also fit but the tunnel cover will have to move approximately 2 & 1/2 inches to the rear of the car.
With both transmissions you need a different rear transmission mount. My 5 speed has one that uses the original factory frame mounts for the transmission. For my friends 6 speed bubble top he added new frame mounts moved the rear of the factory frame mounts

Also "zero changes" are needed to the factory floor pan/tunnel with either Richmond transmission other than cutting a factory style 4 speed rectangular hole in the floor pan (like the factory did on 61 to 63 factory 4 speed cars)

The first 3 pictures are of my 5 speed Richmond in my 62 Chevy SS 409 Convertible with a Hurst 5 speed shifter
The last 3 pictures are of my friends 6 speed Richmond in his 62 Chevy Belair bubble top with a Long 6 speed shifter

 

p1040772_tn-jpg.66733

dscn6660-jpg.66736

dscn6653-jpg.66737

dscn6690-jpg.66738

for length here are the overall lengths to the end of the tailshaft

Muncie 4 speed (pre 71)= 21.5 inches
Borg Warner Super T-10 = 23 inches
Borg Warner 4 speed = 22.61 inches
Richmond 5 speed = 21.57 inches
Richmond 5 speed overdrive = 21.57 inches
Richmond 6 speed overdrive = 21.57 inches
Tremec TKO 5 speed = 30.4 inches (GM)
Tremec 6 speed = 33.0 inches (GM)

As to size of the transmissions Tremecs tko's require complete removal of the entire factory tunnel in 61 to 64 Chevy's and 55 to 57 chevy's (floorpan) and raising the full length and width of the tunnel in front of the seat around 2 to 3 inches.
Note the significant difference in lengths to Richmond transmissions, Muncie 4 speeds and T-10 4 speeds

There are Long 5 and 6 speed shifters sold for and with the Richmond transmissions.

I did all of what I am noting below when I switched my 62 SS Convertible from a Muncie/BW 4 speed to a Richmond 5 speed.

I don't think you can use the 4 speed console with a Richmond 5 speed (with overdrive),without checking what I have noted below. The 64 SS console is designed to fit a 4 speed Muncie (BW is the same) stock shifter location.

  • Note the location of the 4 speed shifter hole in the 64 SS console and the difference in location with the 64 SS Powerglide shifter that is closer to the console.
  • Also note on the side of the console the raised portion of the base of the console. The bottom of the 64 consoles and the 62 SS consoles (63's I am sure are the same) are all the same -designed to fit the floor pan between the bucket seats.
  • See my picture above with the 62 SS console (you can see the a raised part of the floor "that the console fits". The raised portion is about 3 to 4 inches from the front of the console. Its not the floor fit -the raised portion of the console is what lets you know were the consoles are supposed to mount in SS cars
  • You can slide the 1962 SS console between the seats back about 1 to 2" -- "as I recall" (you should try it with the passenger seat in place with a 64 SS console).
  • With my 62 SS console around the shifter - I moved the 61 to 63 4 speed tunnel cover the the rear and moved the SS chrome shifter and moved the mounting plate to the rear about 2 inches for my Richmond 5 speed. This is the Richmond that does not have overdrive but works like a overdrive because of the 1st to 4th gear ratios. 5th is 1 :1 in my Richmond.
  • I think you have to slide the 64 SS console (you show in the pictures) to the rear to make it work, the question will be how much so it does not interfere with the opening between the seats (in the back seat) and will the 4 speed console or even powerglide one move too far to the rear.
  • you should ask for measurements of the 64 original console (or get measurements from a 64 SS car) . The issue you have is checking the console in your car since I assume you do not have a console to put in your car??-to see how far you can move it to the rear.
  • Can you also removed the entire plate in the 64 SS "PG console" to allow a hurst shifter boot through this area. My 62 SS shift plate has a hurst shifter boot in place vs the stock SS shifter boot to fit the flat handle shifter and to allow more movement in the shifter boot for a 5 speed shifter

You may or may not want to use a 61 to 63 SS console tunnel cover for 4 speeds -- this one :https://www.lategreatchevy.com/full...extension-4-speed-transmission-1961-1963.html
64 SS factory 4 speed cars only had a small hole cut in the tunnel for the shifter. The 61 to 63 tunnel cover might work to fit the shifter inside the 64 SS console and provide transmission shifter access and a place to mount a hurst shifter boot.

Here are the shifter locations for Muncies and BW 4 speeds as compared three Richmond 5 & 6 speed transmissions
from the bell housing

  1. Muncie and BW 4 speeds - transmission length (21.50" ) - shifter center line (17.5" ) - transmission mount (14.25" )
  2. Richmond Street 5 speed (1:1 5th) - transmission length (21.57") - shifter center line (20.00" ) -trans. mount (16.50" )
  3. Richmond Super Street 5 spd w/overdrive -trans. length (21.57" ) shifter center line ( 20.75") - trans. mount (18.0" )
  4. Richmond 6 speed w/overdrive - tranmission length (21.57" ) - shifter center line ( 20.75 " ) - trans. mount (18.0" )

Note that the #2 a Richmond street 5 speed is not built any more (they are only available used -I found two of them in the last 2 years).
The Richmond Super Street 5 speed w overdrive comes in 3 first gear ratios to pick from -I like the 3.33 first gear vs the 3:06 or 2.89 first gear ratios. My Richmond has the 3.27 + first gear (with a 3:08 Posi ) and it really drives nice like wide ratio muncie (2:54 ) or BW 4 speed (2:54) first gear ratios.

My Richmond 5 Speed will be 2500 RPM at 65 miles per hour (vs 3800 with a BW or Muncie with a 3:36 rear end) but drives like the BW or Muncies in 1st to 4th gears.



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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. 

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



A Poncho Legend!

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It really is tempting until 3 snags come up-

1) I am not cutting my floor any more than I did for the factory hump. However, if I can find the right person (who has installed one in a factory 4 speed 65-67) I am betting I could buy another hump and cut it to fit the 5 speed without actually hacking any more of my original floor away. I can live with that.

2) The crossmember. However, I don't think that is a very major one. I am sure I could make a crossmember that would work and look fine if I took my time. I am not going to be welding, cutting etc. on my original frame.

3) The price. I didn't realize it was so much for a 5 speed. I knew the 6 speeds were costly but I would be totally happy with a 5 speed with single overdrive. I haven't done the exact calculation but it looks like it would likely drop the RPM at 65 about 700 RPM. That would sure be nice.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



Poncho Master!

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Where are your rpms now at say 115 kph? Rear ratio? Change out to a 3.08 and try a 28 inch tires? With that I am running about 2500. I dont plan on doing that much highway driving to bother with an od tranny.



__________________

63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. 

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



A Poncho Legend!

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Part of the problem is my stubborness to change to a 15" or bigger wheel. I am trying to keep it looking either stock, or at minimum period correct with 14" tires. The tallest 14" I could find is the one I have which is 26.4". That translates to about 2700 rpm at 69 mph, the speed I like to drive on the highway. (My car has the as-built 3.07 12 bolt in it.)



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles



Poncho Master!

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Posts: 2062
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14s are getting hard to find, the range of sizes available is limited which is why I went
To a 15. With stock rims and dog dish its as close to stock as possible.

Easy to lay 14 inch rubber with that 427? I have a big Michelin Defender on the front, its marrow and tall, almost looks stock. Car in storage so dont have the size. You could get a fairly tall 14 inch back in the day, likely more than 27 inch on a wagon or a police package?

__________________

63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. 

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic



A Poncho Legend!

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Posts: 40297
Date:

I have 225 70 14's on it, the tallest I could get that was affordable. I think there was a Coker about an inch taller but the price was almost triple what I paid for tires, I couldn't justify it.

Traction is great on the concrete north of town (oops, I mean I "hear" that traction is great out there...) but the blacktop gets to be an issue! The posi will improve that when I get it installed.

I won't be dumping the clutch or pulling any full throttle shifts on this car (unlike some previous driving habits of mine as mentioned in a different thread!) so I'm not real concerned about traction. I want this car to be a nice driver that I can enjoy on the highway. It's not awful this way but we get so spoiled with our new vehicles with overdrive...

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 44,000 original miles

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