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Post Info TOPIC: Are Canadian car owners being misled about how often a vehicle needs to be serviced?


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Are Canadian car owners being misled about how often a vehicle needs to be serviced?


https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-maintenance-kia-hyundai-oil-change-1.5309293

"That's very strange because, of course, the primary [maintenance] schedule is the regular schedule.

It would seem very odd that the [severe usage] schedule would become the primary schedule

for the whole country," he said. "

And in that case, why would you have a regular schedule in your owner's manual?"

 



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George, I think you're going to get a lively discussion on this one.................!!!

Two quick comments---

-Suing for $985? Seriously? Maybe you shouldn't own a car if you can't afford to do a little bit of maintenance........ Maybe learn how to change your own oil to save money, it's not that complicated.

-This is personal opinion, but nobody will convince me in my lifetime that oil should be left in for 12000 km. One of the things oil is supposed to do is remove contaminants in an engine. It's hard to remove them if it doesn't get changed frequently. I will always change oil at 5000 km. I tell my customers that oil changes are cheap compared to the repair bills I see on vehicles that don't get frequent oil changes.

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A buddy of mine has an f150. When he bought it he had a lot of trouble with it. Lots of warranty repairs to the driveline and engine. The engine had exhaust manifolds replaced and the cylinder heads replaced and then at about 130 km got quite noisy. Bad enough that the ticking/ rapping noise made it difficult to go through a Tim Hortons drive through. The dealer pulled the engine apart and found that a cam phaser disintegrated and the metal went through the engine. First thing asked was how often do you change the oil? He replied that he did it himself every 5K. Because the dealer didnt have a record of the maintenance they tried to deny warranty. He replied that whenever he had warranty work, the oil had been changed. The dealer pulled invoices and he was still within the guidelines in the manual, so the engine was replaced.

Paul

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4SPEED427 wrote:


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Maybe you shouldn't own a car if you can't afford to do a little bit of maintenance........ Maybe learn how to change your own oil to save money, it's not that complicated.


 For most people,changing your own oil just isn't practical. We gear heads love to save money and do it ourselves.

But people who don't have garages or a place to do it or the knowledge need to go to a shop to get it done....that's why your right about doing it at 5000 km.

It keeps the engine life lasting longer. Look at the stories of guys who get a million miles out of their engine.....secret? frequent oil changes.

Should you for some reason not be able to change the oil for another 2000 km. beyond the 5000 km, I would think you're still on the safe side of maintenance.

Advantage of me taking my car to a mechanic for an oil change, rather than a quick lube place, my mechanic checks the car over at the same time and tells me

about any faults he finds with the car that can be taken care of before the fault fails. Nobody wants to be stranded on the road with a broken down vehicle.

It's like insurance.

Pay now or really pay later.

 



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A couple of thoughts:

1) Changing your own oil is a great way to save money on a car that's out of warranty.  Most of us get some satisfaction from doing it as well.  However, if you have a problem while it's within the warranty period, the OEM will not have a record of the oil changes, and even if you produce receipts, have no way of knowing that you actually replaced the oil on your vehicle when you said you did.  In a court of law, you wouldn't have much to stand on if the company denied an expensive warranty claim due to your having no record of the changes.

2) Most modern vehicles have maintenance minders that use your driving data to calculate maintenance periods, and then tell you when to take it in.  Does Hyundai not have that system?

3) With modern oils, manufacturing techniques to attain more accurate clearances, improved emissions systems, etc., it has been found that long oil changes, like 12,000 km, do not cause harm to an engine.  They have been tested exactly for this - manufacturers don't randomly change things like maintenance schedules without some procedure to ensure that they are doing the right thing - think about it - engine failures in the warranty period would cost them millions, and engine failures after the warranty period - within reason - would cost them customers.  I believe most manufacturers specify a time limit as well (1 year?), so if you don't drive much you should still change your oil on a regular basis, due to moisture and other contaminants collecting in the oil.

4) Sure, you will not harm your engine by regularly changing the oil early - I've known guys who will change it every 2000 km - but in reality it probably isn't necessary except for peace of mind and personal satisfaction of 'taking care of' your engine.  I think the hardest thing on an engine are lots of short trips, stop and go driving, etc., especially in the wintertime when it takes longer for your engine to warm up and typically would be more conducive to moisture collecting in your engine.  This should be taken care of by the maintenance minder.

5) I don't know their personal situation, but I've seen dealers (which are actually franchises owned privately, not owned by the company) give out their own "maintenance schedules" to customers, telling them to come in for maintenance much earlier than the company recommendation.  Don't be fooled - this is purely an attempt at a cash grab by the dealer to get you in there more frequently.  Lots of fear of the unknown out there to be played upon, and to profit from.

6) Didn't Hyundai/Kia have a lot of engine failures in the news not long ago?  I'm guessing they were being told to use the severe usage schedule in an attempt to avoid issues caused by a design defect... just a guess.  https://globalnews.ca/news/6003329/kia-owners-outraged-to-be-excluded-from-recall-after-engines-fail/

7) I think overall, longer oil changes are better for the environment in that less oil (organic or synthetic) has to be refined/manufactured, and less that has to be recycled (or dumped somewhere it shouldn't be...).  On a person to person basis, it doesn't seem like much, but if you look at it cumulatively, over millions of vehicles, it adds up pretty quickly.  Don't shoot the messenger - these are the times we are moving towards.  I'm just happy that, for now, we can still enjoy our IC engines before some government entity bans them altogether (which IMHO isn't reasonable or attainable, but that's a whole other topic - and politics are a 'no go' on this forum, for good reason).

 

*If you don't agree with me, that's fine.  The above are just my opinions based on what I've seen/experienced.  Your experience may vary... smile



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Oils have improved greatly but condensation is still a big oil killer. Short trips create a lot of condensation and that type of driving was considered severe service. I remember the sticker on the inner fender of my Chevelle stating change the oil every three months, every two months in the winter.

Paul

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I've worked for GM, Chrylser, Toyota and Hyundai. All of them said owners in Canada should follow the severe duty schedule. Makes sense to me as I think most of us experience severe tempurature swings throughout the year and I feel winter driving can be hard on a car. We never denied warranty if someone who followed the regular schedule had a claim. On my own vehicles I change the oil twice a year- Spring and Fall. My work HHR sees 90% highway KM's and I just had it changed yesterday. It was 15000k since the last oil change and the oil life indicator showed 23% remaining. It has 318k and doesn't smoke, burn a drop or have any abnormal noises.

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I was resisting this thread but oh well.

If Canada is deemed Severe Duty by Manufacturers then why not call it Canadian Service Schedule to avoid any issues with customers.

Who saves money by doing their own oil change?  That's literally impossible. I like to call endeavours like this a Fool's Errand.

You can get a conventional oil change just about anywhere for $24.99. 5 L of oil and a filter are going to cost you 35 bucks then there is the opportunity cost of your time, shop supplies and disposal of oil.  I can't imagine that changing oil is anybody's most valuable use of their time. Let's face it, we change our own oil because we like fooling around with cars and the second you open up your garage all the other guys in the neighbourhood show up to shoot the breeze, maybe crack open a few pops ta boot, not to save money.



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73SC wrote:

I was resisting this thread but oh well.

If Canada is deemed Severe Duty by Manufacturers then why not call it Canadian Service Schedule to avoid any issues with customers.

Who saves money by doing their own oil change?  That's literally impossible. I like to call endeavours like this a Fool's Errand.

You can get a conventional oil change just about anywhere for $24.99. 5 L of oil and a filter are going to cost you 35 bucks then there is the opportunity cost of your time, shop supplies and disposal of oil.  I can't imagine that changing oil is anybody's most valuable use of their time. Let's face it, we change our own oil because we like fooling around with cars and the second you open up your garage all the other guys in the neighbourhood show up to shoot the breeze, maybe crack open a few pops ta boot, not to save money.


 

Must be a GTA price as I haven't seen anything that cheap out east.  Also, who is changing your oil for that money?  Are they changing the filter too?  Are they crossthreading your drain plug.  Leaving greasy fingerprints on your hood then wiping them off with a dirty rag?  There are more reasons than price that one would want to change their own oil.  There are fool's errands, and then there is 'good money thrown after bad'.  Sometimes when you are cheap you get your money's worth...

FWIW, I like to work alone in a shop - no visitors, no talkers.  Just me and my car so I can concentrate on what I'm doing and not miss something.



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Same here. In PEI it's about 68 bucks for a regular oil change. I do my own oil changes for many reasons. I pay more attention than the kid at the dealership or Jiffi Lube, I can use any brand of oil and filter I want and if something gets buggered up I have no one to blame by myself lol!


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73SC wrote:

 

You can get a conventional oil change just about anywhere for $24.99. 


 I wish.........I pay $80. at my  local garage for synthetic + filter.

which looks like what Jiffy Lube charges. Conventional is about $10-15  less.

https://www.mycertifiedservice.ca/deals-values-rebates-western/oil-change-for-less.html?ppc=GOOGLE_700000001509888_71700000029719225_58700003689173719_p28976805587&gclid=Cj0KCQjwivbsBRDsARIsADyISJ8pDL8nuvwOqKRCWk96PLuulFxUBXI7ZgzPHjjgJUpftw3y-3SHXCUaAjF9EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds



-- Edited by Greaser on Wednesday 9th of October 2019 04:57:28 PM

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73SC wrote:

 

You can get a conventional oil change just about anywhere for $24.99. 


 Wow, I can't believe how cheap you can get oil changes Ray. Here in boondocks Manitoba it's over $50 for a conventional oil change, let's say for example a truck like my 97 Silverado, 5 litres of plain old 5W30 and a filter. I don't see how they can stay alive doing business for that price.



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$50!!! I wish it cost me that much to get my Ram done. Easy over a "C" note every time. Truck calls for synthetic 5W20. When I bought-my third Ram- my good friend who builds engines for a living told me that at every 5K is a cash grab for the dealer ships. 15K is the norm as oil is synthetic now and the engines are built with a tighter tolerance than when they were built back in the day. I believe him as he is beyond anal with anything he builds........

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4SPEED427 wrote:
73SC wrote:

 

You can get a conventional oil change just about anywhere for $24.99. 


 Wow, I can't believe how cheap you can get oil changes Ray. Here in boondocks Manitoba it's over $50 for a conventional oil change, let's say for example a truck like my 97 Silverado, 5 litres of plain old 5W30 and a filter. I don't see how they can stay alive doing business for that price.


 Loss leader Carl, common practice used to generate hundreds of dollars in extra services and billings. Everyone should re-read my post, key words are conventional, value of your time for starters. Nowhere did I say this applied to me because like you all I change my own oil most of the time and its synthetic for the Corvette and Cadillac engines anyway. I still don`t buy into the idea that saving money is a key factor in changing your own oil, lots of other reasons have since been noted, distrust of shop, oil stains on car, choose the right brand of oil, correct amount of oil, satisfaction that job is done correctly to name a few. 



-- Edited by 73SC on Wednesday 9th of October 2019 08:55:29 PM

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Is it quick lube places, dealerships, independants, big box stores with auto centres?

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4SPEED427 wrote:

Is it quick lube places, dealerships, independants, big box stores with auto centres?


 Yes, these places are all over Toronto and the GTA, like Midas, Meineke, Speedy, Costco, Walmarts etc....  I saw one place in Oakville offering $19 with 5 litres and filter plus the old free 26 point inspection. 

 

 
 


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I think I'd be scared of an oil change for that price!



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I bet the cheap oil change places won't tell you if your oil looks like chocolate milk or has metallic particles in it. A quick drop, fill and repeat, drop, fill and repeat lube line.



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73SC wrote:
4SPEED427 wrote:

Is it quick lube places, dealerships, independants, big box stores with auto centres?


 Yes, these places are all over Toronto and the GTA, like Midas, Meineke, Speedy, Costco, Walmarts etc....  I saw one place in Oakville offering $19 with 5 litres and filter plus the old free 26 point inspection. 

 

 
 
 

 Oh... one of those guaranteed - "you need all new brake rotors and pads, and your exhaust system is about to go, your shocks are blown and your tires are almost worn out" - kind of deals.  Do people still go to those places?

Still cheaper to change your own oil, but mostly not the main motivation as I don't like having these guys even touch my car.  I suspect that most are not even mechanics, and know little to nothing about cars, only how to generate revenue for the business involved.



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