Canadian built 1970 GTO Judge in National post

bigdreams · Poncho Master!

Canadian built 1970 GTO Judge in National post

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

Nice looking Judge, triple black, one of my favourite combos.

First, 1970 and 1973 were the only years GTO's were produced in Oshawa so your cousin is right about 1971's not being made here.

Second, there were 288 Judges made in Oshawa in 1970.

There are a few things in the write up that bother me that are not really "truths" but overall a nice story. We tend to forget that collectively we are experts on here so its easy to pick apart half truths and inconsistencies in journalist prose.

Overall its a nice story and George has one amazing car there. Thanks for posting it for our enjoyment.

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

There was one 1970 GTO Judge built in Oshawa in 1970 with the L75 455. As Ray said, there were others built with 400s. I'm kind of surprised as many were built as there were. Maybe some were destined for U.S. sale.

Guru

HI would the body tag not say made in Canada or plant in Ontario

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

694279 wrote:
HI would the body tag not say made in Canada or plant in Ontario

Maybe, the practice of stamping the Trim Tag ended in early 1970. MADE IN CANADA was emblazoned on the Trim tags in 1968, 69 and early 70. Regardless an Oshawa car will have the letters OS on the top line after model number before serial number sequence.

Also the blue manufacturer tag if still present in the driver's door will say Manufactured in Canada or similar wording.

Now, seeing I like to say I'm from Missouri I have to question this one L75 car. L75's were a very late year addition and given GTO production was ending and the fact that the engine offers depending on what you read -6 or +4 HP compared to a Ram Air III, how likely is it that Oshawa sourced one engine from Pontiac MI so late in production to produce that one car? I was proven wrong before and may be again but it makes no sense. Besides that isn't a Ram Air III what makes a GTO a Judge?

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I could have sworn that former member Delta Tango's 69 GTO was Oshawa built.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

seventy2plus2 wrote:
I could have sworn that former member Delta Tango's 69 GTO was Oshawa built.

Nope. 1969 was the first year GM Canada actually sold the GTO in the mainstream dealer network and led to the demise of the Beaumont SD396. 1970 was the first year that the Tempest/LeMans line was produced in Oshawa, replacing the A Body Beaumont. Prior to that you could always get GTO in Canada but there were specific dealers and some back room dealing with Pontiac Motor Division to export the cars.

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

73SC wrote:
seventy2plus2 wrote:
I could have sworn that former member Delta Tango's 69 GTO was Oshawa built.
Nope. 1969 was the first year GM Canada actually sold the GTO in the mainstream dealer network and led to the demise of the Beaumont SD396. 1970 was the first year that the Tempest/LeMans line was produced in Oshawa, replacing the A Body Beaumont. Prior to that you could always get GTO in Canada but there were specific dealers and some back room dealing with Pontiac Motor Division to export the cars.

I double checked with him, and it was built in Pontiac MI. It oddly came with a 400 2 barrel carb.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

The 400 2bbl was a no cost economy engine option. It produced 265 HP in 1969 and was a lower compression engine sharing few components with the high compression high HP 400's. I believe this option first became available in 1967. It was available only with an automatic Trans. You got all the look and feel of a GTO with a more sedate engine and fuel economy. A few thousand were sold each year.

Interestingly enough a standard Pontiac 350 2bbl of that era was also rated at 265 HP but as we all know John Delorean refused to allow the GTO to be built with anything less than a 400.

A far as collectibility a 400 2bbl GTO would be very rare today, first due to low production and second due to modification to 4bbl over the years, if it had a Hurst dual gate added I think it would be a cool classic to own and surely a great story starter.

-- Edited by 73SC on Friday 24th of April 2020 12:15:40 AM

CdnGMfan · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Back in the 1990s I saw around my neck of the woods a '68 GTO coupe with a 400 2-barrel. It was a black coupe with a white factory bench seat with fold-down arm rest & a column-shift TH400. Really unusual! The car was from B.C. and I seem to recall the owner said it was sold new there (you never know with stories). The car had Rally 1 wheels as well, another unusual feature. I have never seen that car since.

As Ray pointed out, the 400 2-barrel was a regular fuel alternative to high compression 4-barrel versions from 1967 through 1969. It became redundant in 1971 when all new GM cars ran on regular and was dropped from the GTO. Even during the regular fuel era the 400 4-barrel versions came with bigger valves, at least in the pre-catalytic converter era and maybe into it as well.

As for the single L75 Judge built in Oshawa I don't know the story or rational, but it was officially built.

<edit> The 400 2-barrel was last offered in 1969, not 1970 as I had previously erroneously stated.

I will need to dig out my source that I had for the 1970 GTO Judge production that stated Oshawa produced a single L75 Judge. It was a complete breakdown of Judge production by plant. By comparison the on-line sources don't seem to acknowledge Oshawa as a possible plant for 1970 Judges. For the sake of accuracy I need to try to find it and quote the source.

-- Edited by CdnGMfan on Saturday 25th of April 2020 01:12:00 AM

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

CdnGMfan wrote:
As for the single L75 Judge built in Oshawa I don't know the story or rational, but it was officially built.

I will accept this, solely on the source being you Cam !

I'm trying to envsion the call from Oshawa to Pontiac:

Oshawa Purchasing Agent: Ya we need one of those hopped up 455's for a GTO Judge STAT, code is L-75.

Pontiac Shipping: Huh...Are you kidding me? It's April 24th and you are shutting down production any time now.

Oshawa Purchasing Agent; I Know I Know but we got some hot shot brass up in Finance, goes by Big Ray, wants the car for his personal use.

Pontiac Shipping; You got an account number for this, boy it's gonna cost you.

Oshawa Purchasing Agent; Ya he says charge it to Employee Benefits and hey, overnight shipping, the car is out there sitting on the line.

Pontiac Shipping; It's Done, say how's the weather ?

Oshawa Purchasing agent: You know what it's like in the Great White North, -3 and sleet, Have a good Weekend Eh!

NOS · Poncho Master!

CdnGMfan wrote:
There was one 1970 GTO Judge built in Oshawa in 1970 with the L75 455. As Ray said, there were others built with 400s. I'm kind of surprised as many were built as there were. Maybe some were destined for U.S. sale.

Judges were a dime a dozen in the London area . We had a customer who did a frame off Judge convertible that he purchased from the original owner. The car ended up going to the US

Canadian Poncho · A Poncho Legend!

They likely had to install the Judge stripes and other decals off line.