Sheer stupidity.  Unfortunately, this will turn into a "smear Tesla" campaign, not entirely unearned given Musk's propensity for unwarranted hyperbole, but I note that Chevrolet doesn't get maligned every time some drunk gets in a Silverado and kills himself wrapped around a telephone pole.  

For me the fact that the fire wasn't  being  able to be put out for over four hours because the batteries kept reigniting 

is more troubling than the auto pilot issue.

-G 

MC wrote:

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Greaser wrote:

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For me the fact that the fire wasn't  being  able to be put out for over four hours because the batteries kept reigniting 

is more troubling than the auto pilot issue.

-G 

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 That's a fire department issue more than an electric car issue.  As more electric cars hit the road, eventually all depts will be trained and equipped to handle them properly.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a34335268/electric-car-fire-preparedness-ntsb-report/

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 So the issue with the Ford  Pinto fires back in the 70's should have been a fire department issue?

I have to disagree with putting the responsibility on the fire departments.

From the article:

"The USFA says EV fires "can exceed 5000 degrees Fahrenheit" and "applying water or foam may cause a violent flareup

as the water molecules separate into explosive hydrogen and oxygen gases."

There are also risks of electric shock and toxic fumes in an electric vehicle fire that aren't present in gasoline fires,

or at least not in the same way. "

That's asking a lot for any fire departments to have to handle.

I really believe these fires in electric vehicles are an issue the electric car companies need to resolve

for the safety of those using these cars. No different than all the vehicle safety requirements

the governments demands from all car manufacturers.

-G

Greaser wrote:

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 So the issue with the Ford  Pinto fires back in the 70's should have been a fire department issue?

I have to disagree with putting the responsibility on the fire departments.

 

From the article:

 

"The USFA says EV fires "can exceed 5000 degrees Fahrenheit" and "applying water or foam may cause a violent flareup

as the water molecules separate into explosive hydrogen and oxygen gases."

There are also risks of electric shock and toxic fumes in an electric vehicle fire that aren't present in gasoline fires,

or at least not in the same way. "

 

That's asking a lot for any fire departments to have to handle.

I really believe these fires in electric vehicles are an issue the electric car companies need to resolve

for the safety of those using these cars. No different than all the vehicle safety requirements

the governments demands from all car manufacturers.

-G

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I'm sorry, George.   I wasn't trying to start an argument.

My point was that carmakers are always putting new materials and new technologies in vehicles, and AFAIK they are required to create instructions to fire departments as to how to handle fires and accident situations.  As far as I know (I'm not a firefighter), the fire department's responsibility is to keep on top of new technology as it relates to firefighting techniques and equipment and train their firefighters accordingly.

The issue of battery fires should be nothing new to them as gas/electric hybrid vehicles have been around for 20 years, so I didn't think this would be anything unusual for them to deal with.

Maybe this is an issue that governments need to deal with by requiring companies to pass some sort of burn requirement (in the same way that they must pass crash test requirements) for all their vehicles?  I don't know.

I will decline to comment further on this.

Edit:  I lied... I commented again below...

DonSSDD wrote:

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I open the mail at our volunteer fire department, done so now for 14 years. Have never seen one piece of mail warning anything from a car company or from any government. The electrical fire issue is trained for but rule #1 is dont spray an electrical fire with anything. Wait until it goes out or the light & power has confirmed the power is shut off. Hard to do with a Tesla.

I havent seen a driver seat with a weight sensor, sounds like a good idea where a car can drive itself. Wonder if Tesla has one?

-- Edited by DonSSDD on Monday 19th of April 2021 06:47:09 PM

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 So, it sounds like it is up to the fire department to seek out information and educate themselves, or do they wait for it to show up in the mail?  Is there no national firefighters association that provides guidance as to how to handle new technologies?  Who decides how to train new and active firefighters on how to deal with new building structures and materials, as well as new vehicles, and anything else that is 'new'?

From the tone of this article:  https://www.fireapparatusmagazine.com/fire-apparatus/today-s-new-vehicle-car-fires/#gref  It sounds like there are methods to use for these specific types of fires, but it doesn't sound like there is any move to push the info out to the department... almost like the departments have to be proactive... but I don't know.  Given your work for the volunteer fire dept., how do they handle it?

I've known of this resource for firefighters in relation to extrication methods due to different materials like ultra high strength steel, etc: http://www.boronextrication.com/tag/firefighter/

Tesla, the vehicle in question, offers these resources to firefighters:  https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/firstresponders

So what am I missing here?  I'm not a firefighter, but I am interested, as I'm sure others are as well.

MC, its up to the departments to seek out information for training. There is a NS Firefighters school in Waverly that does training for new members plus would put on special training courses like vehicle extractions .I would think something for electric cars will happen soon. Without a way to be sure there is zero voltage in an electric vehicle, Im wondering how this works. Havent read your link on Tesla. Plus, everyone seems to be doing their own thing with manufacturing these vehicles, what works on. Tesla may not work on GM etc?

DonSSDD wrote:

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MC, its up to the departments to seek out information for training. There is a NS Firefighters school in Waverly that does training for new members plus would put on special training courses like vehicle extractions .I would think something for electric cars will happen soon. Without a way to be sure there is zero voltage in an electric vehicle, Im wondering how this works. Havent read your link on Tesla. Plus, everyone seems to be doing their own thing with manufacturing these vehicles, what works on. Tesla may not work on GM etc?

-- Edited by DonSSDD on Tuesday 20th of April 2021 07:08:15 AM

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 Thanks for the info, Don.

Sounds like a bit of a sh__ show when it comes to new materials and systems coming online so quickly, and changing so quickly.  And, as you say every company has their own way of doing things - so it puts the firefighter in the postion of having to know the specifics of each vehicle before being able to respond to a call.

I don't want to go into the politics of it all, for obvious reasons, but I haven't been able to get my head around why we still have volunteer fire departments where people have to risk their health and safety (and to some extent, their mental health with PTSD, etc.) on a volunteer basis, for a measly $500 tax return.  It seems like we haven't evolved much beyond the fire brigade scenario of the 1800s.  In this day in age, with the complexity of situations facing a first responder, fire departments should be completely funded and supported by the federal, provincial, and municipal (where applicable) governments.  The current state of affairs seems to be inadequate, especially as things continue to become more difficult to deal with. 

Consumer Reports determines if a Tesla can operate autopilot without a driver

Hopefully when the Consumer Reports clip goes viral, Telsa's stock price will drop. Then Musk might admit there's a problem.  To me, introducing unproven or easily defeated tech that can kill people is completely unethical.

...I still want to know why two men in their 50's would be willing to completely trust their lives to technology, and what their families are saying right now... were the men asleep, or what *were* they doing? When's the big lawsuit coming out?