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Post Info TOPIC: Need To Be Educated 71 Lemans Sport Front Turn Signals


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Need To Be Educated 71 Lemans Sport Front Turn Signals


I need some education on the front turn signal / marker lights housings for 71 Pontiac Lemans era body style???                                                                                                          

My 71 Lemans  has a stock front end on it, so non Endura front end and I've been looking for a while for better condition front turn signal / marker light housings?                                           

The ones I have now are ok and complete, just a bit faded and one has a noticeable crack in the lens.  Color is the white or clear lenses which is correct for 71.                                          

So the Endura front ends was an option at that time of purchase  and or was it cheaper to go that way after having a front end collision?                                                                                  

I'm not sure if these white turn signal housings were just a one year item, or was 1970 the same???

 When I've searched goggle, etc everything seems to lead me to the endura front end with the round turn signal / marker lights or a different rectangular ones that requires a outer housing or trim...

I believe 72 was the same size and shape, just with an amber lens, which would be okay as they want an amber bulb in the 71 anyways and I'm ok not being 100% correct.                    

Hope I haven't asked to many questions plus this is getting long, but is there any other models or years that use these or the same lens?

Would anyone have the original part #'s for these lenses?

 

Thank you

Frank B



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I will offer what little help I can.

As seems to be the norm of lkate, there is ample misinformation on the web, so searching for legitimate information might be a bit tricky.

This is the 1970 the Tempest & Lemans end;
Just like years before, the Tempest was the entry level car, the Lemans was the step up in luxury car, and then new for 1970 there was the T-37 & GT-37 which where sporty versions of these cars (T-37 was based on Tempest standard equipment, while the GT-37 was based on the Lemans standard equipment).


This is a 1970 front end:

?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3 

You are correct that the 1971 & 1972 Tempest/Lemans had the same front end;
The 'endura front end' option for those years was a way that Pontiac essentially allowed customers to build a GTO without having the insurance premiums of a GTO;
After 1970 Pontiac really did some model shuffling in order to get buyers access to insurable performance cars - as was the trend, the base drivetrain for a model was what essentially dictated the insurance premiums, so a 1971 GT-37 or Formula Firebird with their 350/2bbl drivetrains were substantially cheaper to insure than a GTO or Trans Am.
Although the drivetrain on a Lemans with the 'endura front end option' was't upgraded the "GTO front end option" (as some enthusiasts have come to call it) included the GTO hood - I believe that the 350-2bbl engine was mandatory for that option, and the 400/4bbl was optional - I do not know if the 'endura front end' was optional for Canadian cars, or if it mandated a comparable Chevy drivetrain to the USA-Pontiac counterpart.

This is the regular bumper and hood for the 1971 Lemans (also Tempest, and GT-37);
I could be mistaken, but believe that the 'Tempest' name was not really used any more, and was replaced simply with T-37, then gone after 1971.

?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3

 

This is the 1972 Lemans with the standard chrome bumper and flat hood:

1972-pontiac-lemans-gt


I had not noticed the front marker light difference, but until I made this post, I also hadn't noticed the grille difference - these are both typical model year styling changes.

For more clarity on model year changes, you might be best served at another forum, like this one:

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=436

/\ that link actually will bring you directly to the 70-72 GTO/Tempest/Lemans sub forum.

I am confident that you should be able to find all the information for parts interchange ect there - that's not a knock against this one, as it's great, but it's focus is moreover on the unique Canadian market vehicles.

You can also look to dismantelrs like the following link for parts:

https://www.frankspontiacparts.com/

You can also look to a few enthusiast sites dedicated to the performance model of these cars (the GT-37) like this one:

http://www.gt-37.org/

I hope this helps!!



-- Edited by unruhjonny on Friday 4th of June 2021 09:56:34 AM

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Luke 23: 39-43 / Ephesians 2: 8-9  / 1 Corinthians 2:12-14 / 2 Timothy 3:1-5;12



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Thanks so much unruhjonny for taking the time to put all that information together, the pic's and answering my question, plus the links.
So yes, only two year run on those style of turn signal marker lights, 71 white / clearish and 72 amber.
That is so interesting about the insurance aspect into car manufacturing...
I never knew that or don't remember insurance issues back then
as I had not started to driving legally until 1974.
I just remember insurance back then pretty much being about the same cost for full coverage as what we pay now for these classic vehicles.
Thanks again, much appreciated.
Frank B.



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The link below takes you to the GM of Canada 1971 brochure:

http://oldcarbrochures.org/Canada/GM-Canada/Pontiac/1971_Pontiac_LeMans_Brochure-Cdn/index.html

A couple of interesting things to note:

- The Endura Styling Option was available on Canadian cars, and it appears only available on the LeMans Sport model.

- The text doesn't say that the Endura option wasn't available on the 4-door hardtop - if so, that would have made for an interesting car.

- Looks like all the engine/transmission options of the GTO were available in T-37, LeMans, and LeMans Sport.  Again, there was potential for some interesting choices.

71 LeMans Sport text.png

71 LeMans Sport text 2.png

71 LeMans Sport.png



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Thanks MC
Yes, that sure did make for many possible options or combinations for that year.
My car is a sport, but has the regular front end, 350 2bbl, 3 speed automatic and no fender louvers which I thought my car was missing, but perhaps not...
I do have the original bill of sale, I will look that over again?
Thanks
Frank

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Sounds cool.  Have you posted pics here before?



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Hi MC
Yes, I've posted pic's here before, I'll will get that posted on the site later today.
On this Bill of Sale it appears the original owner traded in a 66 Impala SS manual transmission and received a trade in allowance of $1346.80.
Hindsight, should have bought a lot of those trade in's back then...
Wish we were living in those days, now...
I also have the Factory Brochure with the complete line of the 71 models.
Should I try to post that as well?
Frank


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Bill Of Sale.Bill Of Sale.jpg



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To understand the 70-72 Pontiac intermediate line up it helps to start with the 68-69 lineup (which was basically the same since 66), here goes but be warned it gets a bit confusing:

1968... all new cars with new wheelbase differentiation between 2 and 4 door models

The Tempest was the lowest priced line of the Pontiac A body and only offered 2 and 4 door post sedans
Next up was the Tempest Custom, which was basically a bit nicer interior, extra exterior trim and a wider selection of bodystyles including wagons (regualr and safari), hardtops (2 and 4 door), convertibles in addition to the 2 and 4 door sedans
The LeMans was next with even higher trim (including no cost optional bucket seats on 2 doors), more again exterior trim and the same body styles as the Tempest custom less the 4dr sedan and wagon
Lastly was the GTO with the same interior trim as the LeMans (but with buckets standard, bench optional) and the appearance and performance features (400, endura nose, scooped hood etc)

notes: All except the GTO came with a 175 horse 250 L6 OHC engine with a Sprint option offered (215 horse) plus two optional 350's, 265 horse 2bbl regular fuel and a 320 horse 4bbl HO
Both wagons were in the Tempest Custom line but the woodgrain version was called a Tempest Safari (but had the same trim inside as the Tempest Custom)


1969... Restyled with different grilles, bumpers and tailights, also 2 door hardtops and convertibles no longer had vent windows

Tempest line was not materially changed
Tempest Custom line was renamed Custom S but was basically unchanged other than the woodie wagon was rebranded LeMans Safari (but was still trimmed like a Custom S inside)
LeMans line was unchanged (other than the renaming of the woodie wagon as a LeMans)
GTO was also unchanged (other than mid year intro of the Judge option)


1970... heavily restyled with only roof panels carried over, names of levels were rejigged but no major change in the content and offerings of each level, GT-37 option did not include an engine upgrade but a V8 was mandatory (most had the 350)

Tempest line was not materially changed initially but mid year a 2dr hardtop was added to the Tempest line and called T37, in turn it spawned the GT37 option that was a sports appearance package (sport mirrors, stripes etc)
LeMans name was moved down a level to what were in effect the previous Custom midlevel line, there was no longer a convertible at this level. The two wagons (woodie and regular) were back to being placed in the midlevel line
LeMans Sport was the new name for what was previously the LeMans, no material change in content
GTO had no material changes in content or offerings

notes: the OHC engines were replaced with the chevy L6 engines, the 350 HO was dropped but 2 400's were now offered in non GTO's (a 2bbl and a 330 4bbl), 455 was a new GTO option


1971... restyled front end including new hood

T37 was the new name now given to the bottom line previously called Tempest, no material change in content
LeMans was again the step up level and unchanged in content
LeMans Sport also was unchanged from the previous year in content but now offered the GTO looking "endura" option on all three bodystyles (2dr and 4 door hardtop and ragtop)
GTO was unchanged but the convertible and the Judge option were cancelled mid year

notes... all high compression engines were cancelled (replaced with lower output equivalents), low compression 455 (including the HO) engines was now offered on all models, Endura option required V8 engine, GT-37 option continued


1972... once again model names were rejigged, minor grille redesign and chrome front valence on non endura cars,

LeMans was downgraded even more to the base level, the midlevel line was gone, now in effect a trim option on the base model, all body styles were offered except a convertible
LeMans Sport was unchanged except for the dropping of the 4 door hardtop offering
Luxury LeMans was a new higher trim level that included fender skirts, fancier interior trim and some badging and grille treatment, models offered were 2 and 4 door hardtops, V8 was mandatory

notes... The GTO was cancelled as a model but was now offered as an option on either a LeMans of LeMans Sport. When ordered on a LeMans Sport (2 dr hardtop only) it had basically the same trim and content as in 1971 but when ordered on a LeMans (post or hardtop 2 door) it was trimmed inside like a base model with bench seat etc. Also the Endura option was now offered on the base LeMans' as well

I think the reason for this confusing mess of rebadging was driven by the fact that in those years the Pontiac intermediates were in a sales free fall. Being very popular through the mid sixties the Pontiac intermediates starting losing ground sales wise in 69 and it got worse every year relative to chevy, Buick and Olds. I think this is why there was so many changes, they were desperate to stem the decline. The GTO situation was even more dire, 69 sales were down 15% from the previous year. 1970 was down a staggering 45% from 69. 1971 sales plummeted 75% from the already meager 70 numbers. 1972 fell another 50% (down to only one twentieth of the peak in 1966!).







-- Edited by North on Tuesday 24th of August 2021 02:44:08 PM

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16 1969 American Pontiacs

and a 1969 Canadian 2+2 Hardtop



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Thanks so much North for your explanation on the late 60's to early 70's mid size Pontiac's... Great info. Yes, confusing but understandable. With sales dropping at that time you would think management would be smarter then to continue to make all these minor to major changes for that long... It would really eat into your bottom line... Frank

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fbmann wrote:

Thanks so much unruhjonny for taking the time to put all that information together, the pic's and answering my question, plus the links.
So yes, only two year run on those style of turn signal marker lights, 71 white / clearish and 72 amber.
That is so interesting about the insurance aspect into car manufacturing...
I never knew that or don't remember insurance issues back then
as I had not started to driving legally until 1974.
I just remember insurance back then pretty much being about the same cost for full coverage as what we pay now for these classic vehicles.
Thanks again, much appreciated.
Frank B.


 In reference to the insurance information, back in the early 90s a friend had an apprentice working in his shop. The young man drove a rusty ford escort. On of the shops customers was a car lot and brought in a real nice escort gt with a bad engine. Anyhow the apprentice bought the car and swapped in the engine out of his rusty car. When he went to swap the insurance over, the insurance company labelled it as a sports car because of the gt option! It cost him $20 more a month!

Paul



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I have a friend who bought a 70 LS6 chevelle new. By 1971 his insurance was costing him more than his GMAC car payments which were a bit more than $100 a month. And he had never made a claim, but he was 20 years old. He sold the car in 72 and bought a heavy chevy with a 350 2bbl.

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16 1969 American Pontiacs

and a 1969 Canadian 2+2 Hardtop



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Prefectca wrote:
in reference to the insurance information, back in the early 90s a friend had an apprentice working in his shop. The young man drove a rusty ford escort. On of the shops customers was a car lot and brought in a real nice escort gt with a bad engine. Anyhow the apprentice bought the car and swapped in the engine out of his rusty car. When he went to swap the insurance over, the insurance company labelled it as a sports car because of the gt option! It cost him $20 more a month!

Paul


 In the early 2000's my Pontiac Grand Am was labelled as a sports car because it had two doors.

I really like Haggerty, but as far as I'm concerned insurance companies are crooks;
I understand higher premiums for new cars (I mean, they're worth more, and require larger payouts if written off) - but for rates to have no discernible deduction despite a clean record, and having driven the car for many years...



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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red on black (std) interior
350hp, Hurst shifted Muncie 3 speed, steel wheels w/poverty caps
1:411 1970 Firebird Formulas originally sold in Canada

Luke 23: 39-43 / Ephesians 2: 8-9  / 1 Corinthians 2:12-14 / 2 Timothy 3:1-5;12

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