Photobucket
Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Headliner install in a 65 post Sedan


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Status: Offline
Posts: 8100
Date:
Headliner install in a 65 post Sedan


I'm about to attempt a headliner install on my 65... So It's probably worth to try to document here it in some way. I've never done one, but have just about read everything I can about it on line, have talked to members, and feel I'm semi ready.

As with most things I've done for the first time, this is another one of those "black art" things that I feel needs to be demystified at least in my mind.

I'll try to take as many shots as I can to describe it in a way that makes sense and might be helpful at some point.

 

Any hints from those who have done it would be much welcomed. 

 

 

Basically, the idea to start is to get the liner folded out out in the sun for a while. Fit the rods in the listings, trim the listings to the rod curves and get the liner up in place, centered, trimming slots to fit the rod tabs through the listings.

Center it, then temporarily hold it in place front, back and above the door with a ton of 2" amazon binder clips. I have 50. Let it "rest in place for a few days then begin to smooth, glue and staple it in place when ready. I'd like to use 3M Yellow super weatherstrip adhesive, out of the tube and brush it on each surface. Any other thoughts on this?

 

Front and rear glass are out. The rear gluing strips around the rear window are cleaned and prepped. Side strips are clean and the prongs are all adjusted. Rods are clean. Working now on the front upper header area. I'm removing the tacking strips, and cleaning it up along there and will use glue only along that area. The tacking strips are wasted anyway, and I think the factory used them as the liner went in after the glass was mounted. I have the luxury of working without the glass and can pull the liner out through the opening and clamp it along the glass flange. I still need to add a couple of sections of diy tacking strip around the quarter window as some is missing. Not sure what to use yet. The way the liner comes down and mounts at the bottom of the sail panels is a little tricky. It needs a small cardboard strip glued behind the liner and folded around and under two small flanges. One clip that secures the rear interior panel also holds it down in place.

 

Some images to start,

The full inside,

roof.JPG

Side strips,

tack2.JPG

Front header with old strips,

t strip.jpg

Remains of the old tacking strip, they are attached onto the header panel with staples that are a bear to remove,

waste.jpg

Cheers,

 



Attachments
__________________
65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Status: Offline
Posts: 8100
Date:

Took the headliner out of the bag for the first time today. 

Turns out it appears to be for a 67 and up sedan. 65-66 have the sail section integral to the liner, 67 and up use sail panels (I think).  It has no material in place for the c pillars, but includes a 18x53" section that will more than cover the sail panels (and maybe the visors as well), which is fine as I'm never looking for total originality on this car. The different spacing between the bows checks out, along with the overall width and length. I got the liner from a good member here for a good price, so I'm good with it. Just have to come up the a sail panel system that will work and look good.

Spread it out to sit in the hot sun for a day to let it relax a bit. Some guys will actually drop it in the dryer for a bit to relax any hard creases. I plan on just letting it sit in the sun for a day or so then roll it up. Then I'll install it with the bows and begin to pull it tight, clipping it in place for a week or so, regularly adjusting it tighter until it's ready to glue.

 

4.jpg5.jpg

 

Found a little  vacuum cap to place on the end of the bow to ease insertion into the listing.

6.jpg

 

The main center wire bow listing and liner seam will need be installed as tight as possible at the get go, as the 8 prongs for the that bow need to penetrate the listing at the right spot. Although the slots for those prongs could be cut wider to accommodate more outward movement.

But I don't think you can keep making prong cuts in the listing as the liner gets tight along that line. 

 

The main spar and small wire bow (Bow #3), and the larger rod with the single hanger prong (Bows 1,2, 4, 5)

7.jpg8.jpg

I think you just need to approach this job methodically to make it work.



Attachments
__________________
65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


A Poncho Legend!

Status: Offline
Posts: 20249
Date:

cdnpont wrote:

 65-66 have the sail section integral to the liner, 67 and up use sail panels (I think).


I know '61s - '64s have separate hardboard-mounted sail panels (I don't know about earlier).

Good luck with the install!



__________________

Prince Edward Island

'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Status: Offline
Posts: 8100
Date:

Got the liner at least hung today. A good hot day. Good in that it allows the fabric to stretch.

Clipped in place, front and back it pulled nicely into place over the afternoon. All the hard wrinkles dissapeared. The bigger ones will be pulled out during glueing.

16.jpg

Before installing the bows, I flipped it backside up and measured for the centerline. cut a notch in the listing center at bows 1, 2, 4, 5 to accept the single roof hanger tab. Main wire bow #3, I measured and cut 8 small notches for the wire hanger prongs.

I also cut away the listing at the bow ends. About 1/2" above the bow ends. Be aware that when You cut off the listing ends, the stitching will begin to unravel. I sewed the ends up needle and thread the keep them together.

10.jpg

The listing shown ending just above the rod end where it fits into the roof frame,

14.jpg

You can see the single hanger tab here, rod fits over the tab.

15.jpg

The center main small wire bow, The hanging begins here.

11.jpg

Then I went in the backseat and hung the two rear bows.

13.jpg

Going with Permatex contact cement in a can. Sprays a nice pattern. Tested it on some scrap fabric, and it holds like a bear.

18.jpg



Attachments
__________________
65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 2052
Date:

Wow mark !

Keep up the good work.

kudos to you for working through this heat.

Hopefully it makes the fabric easier to stretch biggrin



__________________

https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t63333628/click-here-to-support-canadian-poncho/

Randy(Muttwood)



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Status: Offline
Posts: 8100
Date:

Thanks Randy,

I got it all glued in less the sails Yesterday. The fact it was so hot worked to my benefit.  Sitting in the car now with the headliner in place transforms it. It feels more finished, like it's coming together now.

 

25.jpg

26.jpg

 

I can't say enough about doing this job when it's hot outside. When cool or cold, you'd be fighting getting it into shape along the way.

 

Sprayed the glue, let set 5 minutes minimum, then from inside the car, seated, began by pulling the material forward center, clamping then moving to the right pulling forward and to the right slightly. When done, moved left of center. Ended up with a full line of binder clips to be left in place overnight.

Moved to the rear seat, much the same method as the front. Then the sides at the doors, finally the quarter window and downward into the sail panel section.

 

I glued the front only along and in the area indicated. Used masking tape to keep it off the header frame. Any glue along to the rear will show as a line the might not be covered by trim. The front liner pulls away from the front header along that right hand yellow line. The rear, I glued it along the metal tacking strip, just to a little hump in the strip. The liner pulls down and away forward at the left yellow line indicating that small hump.

28.jpg30.jpg

 

I removed the old tacking strip around the drivers side quarter window. It was crumbling, it's a job to pull the strip mounting staples, vice grips are needed. They penetrate right into the body. The passenger side was still good. I found that these strips need to be in place as a sort of filler. Not knowing what to use, I noticed a leftover cork and neoprene pan gasket hanging in the shed. I cut it in two 7/16" wide strips, and combined them with the spray contact cement. Then I applied them along the tack strip line. They proved to be a reasonable replacement. 

The new "tack strip" doubled up gasket material,

20.jpg

 

You can sort of see the heavy wire staples still to be pulled out along the tack strip line.

22.jpg

 

Material glued around onto the quarter tack strip. Glued only along the strip, little to none on the body itself, Any wrinkles along that edge should relax out with a heat gun. But most of the roughness along the edge should cover with the trim.

29.jpg

I did not use any staples to fix the liner in place, just glue which really works well. This stuff really sticks. Hopefully it will continue to do so over time. Note; clean all the surfaces on the body to be glued. Scotchbrite and acetone to improve the adherence.

I was careful applying the glue. Drew a line on the liner to indicate the glueline. I used making tape to apply it exactly where I wanted on the body. Pull the tape off the instant you apply the glue. If you wait too long the tape will pull off some of the the glue.

 

You can see here how I glued along the leading edge of the door tacking prong strip. I wanted none above the contour on the strip where the windlace will sit. Here, you begin one section at a time by pulling the seam down in place, drawing out any wrinkles above on the seamline to the center of the roof. Then pull down lightly between the seams. The seams need more pull. 

23.jpg

 

Then the leftover material tucks up around the prong strip. The windlace also tucks up behind this strip. The prongs do just about nothing.

27.jpg

 

Now I move onto figuring out the diy sail panel extortions,

 

 



Attachments
__________________
65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


Poncho Master!

Status: Offline
Posts: 1646
Date:

Great work Mark! Will have to find some of that spray adhesive, most I have found just don't hold up.

__________________

Stony Mountain, MB

65 Impala SS 2dr HT
65 Impala convert.
59 Impala 2dr HT
67 Acadian Canso 2dr HT

 

 

 



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Status: Offline
Posts: 6675
Date:

Good job Mark. Fun to watch another tutorial.

__________________
Jerel


A Poncho Legend!

Status: Offline
Posts: 20249
Date:

jmont64 wrote:

Good job Mark. Fun to watch another tutorial.


 X2thumbsup.gifthumbsup.gif



__________________

Prince Edward Island

'64 Parisienne CS "barn find" - last on the road in '86 ... Owner Protection Plan booklet, original paint, original near-mint aqua interior, original aqua GM floor mats, original 283, factory posi, and original rust.



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Status: Offline
Posts: 8100
Date:

Thanks guys!

Today I put a little thought into the sail panels. I didn't want to do the usual material on card thing. Would have took too much fine work making the card fit exactly. 

So I looked around and found a length of 3/16 brake line to make a hanger out of. Cut it to span the c pillar at what I thought appeared to be a pleasing angle.

Cut the panel to include 3/4 of wrap around the line. Carefully glued it up. Mocked it up but found the weight of the line could drag the panel down, pulling the glue away on the sides. But yes! The line is hollow!!!. Ran a length of bailing wire through the line, drilled a hole in the rear tack strip and threaded the wire end through. Added a small teck screw in the quarter window tack line, wrapped the forward wire end around the screw. The teck screw will be covered by the trim.

Sits decent, and the line can be bent to whatever the upper panel material needs for a good seam. Mocked up, it looks viable! 

 

3/16 line alongside the glue lines, and wrapped. End angle cut to meet the 1/4 window trim.

33.jpg34.jpg

 

Mocked up,

I certainly would have preferred full panels all the way down, but at least it's presentable.

31.jpg32.jpg

 

 



Attachments
__________________
65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Status: Offline
Posts: 8100
Date:

Well, after a hard fought battle, I think I'm done with the liner.

I actually had a bunch of trouble with the glue. The Permatex, while good initially, would come undone about 3 days after application and leave a gooey mess. While some areas did stick, most all of the edge had to be redone. I went with the 3M super weatherstrip glue in yellow second (and some third) times round. It is a superior product, and can't compare to the Permatex. It's not fun regluing, and it's really disappointing when you come out and see the edges sagging. I admit I was very close to ripping the entire thing out and starting from new. But I stayed calm and carried on.

I'm editing in that the glue of choice for the pro's is Weldwood Landau. Apparently the very best. But it seems difficult to get in Canada. Anyone have any info on how to get it please post it here.

37.jpg

 

I had initially removed and did not replace the front tack strip at the header as it was rotten. This was one amateur mistake for sure. A good strip in place would have allowed me to staple it along the length. As such it just could not hold the tension with glue alone. 

As a stopgap measure after the fact, I made up 4, .040 1/2" metal strips, shaped to the contour of the header, 3 screws each, glued and screwed them on OVER the glued in place liner edge. It'll not move now. The strips were shaped as such they stay behind the reveal molding. Sorry, no image of the job, but picture the two strips as the yellow lines. The large red box would be the mirror mount, the small would be the reveal molding holdoff legs at the screw.

40.JPG

 

As for the rear "Tacking" strip, no staples were ever used here from the factory. It appears the strip has some kind of bumps along the 3 lengths. Not sure if they were mis stamped and had originally been intended as barbs but they had no hook to them. So the idea here was to glue the liner edge along, over and around the strip edge. I then used binder clips to hold it in place. Well, the glue failed here as well. Twice. So it was back in and re glue with the 3M and secure the binder clips.

So as to not feel anymore disappointment, I made up a bunch of clips using some leftover 3/8 copper alloy line. Cut a slit along the length, then cut them in 3 lengths then deburred them. Fitted them over the strip and liner edge and crimped them down with Vice Grips. They work good and really hold tight. The good part is they are softer than steel, crimp easily and can be opened and taken off if needed . A lot of work, but it should be permanent. The rear window trim will cover it.

The sail paned is stapled along the 1/4 windows. The bottom is still not yet 100% permanent, and can be adjusted tight when the package tray and side panel go in. And I did not use a fancy stapler, just an electric one with 1/4" T50's. Worked fine.

36.jpg35.jpg

The sides over the doors; I adjusted the hooks on the holding strips to allow the liner to catch the hooks when pushed up and behind. I used a 1 1/2" old scraper with a very blunt edge to push it up. It's a bit of a trick as you have to push up and tip the scraper out at an angle pulling it back down to kind of persuade the liner onto the barbs. This along with some glue on the very edge and it was a success, and did not need a re glue...yet. 

 

So, had it not been for the glue failure and the need to make sail panels, it would have been a straightforward job (especially with the glass out). As such it was very difficult and taxing, and really tasted my patience. I did beat it though, and I'm confident I could do another no problem.

Some tips;

  • Set the liner out in the sun to relax it.
  • Measure a centerline in pencil on the fabric side. Most liners should have a small "V" cut at center front and back.
  • Ensure your listing strip is cut free enough from the roof bow at the body hole bend. It has to be able to be pulled down. It will never pull down if it gets caught here.
  • Be cautious of cutting the listing. Do not cut the listing off that hangs free outside the liner edge. The panel sewing line will unravel. Keep this overlength if you have it.
  • Pre cut slots in the listing for the bow hangers. Single center slots on #1,2,4,5, and 8 small notches (measured) for the central #5 wire bow prongs.
  • Clean all the gluing surfaces with acetone.
  • Cover everything!! The spray glue tends to kind of fly off in spatter wherever it want's to.
  • Make sure your tacking strips are in good order. 
  • Straighten and adjust the prongs on the strips over the doors.
  • Keep your seats in the car. You'll need somewhere to sit. 
  • Install the screws for the coat hanger, visors and mirror mount. Not 100% necessary, but makes it easier to find them after the fact. X cut at the head and you have your mark.
  • Pick warm weather to work. Make it far easier to stretch the liner. 
  • Clip it in place for a day or two in the heat to let it setup better. Might be difficult front and back with the glass in place.
  • Don't over stretch it. Pull it just enough to remove most of the large wrinkles.
  • Mask off where you don't want glue (on the liner and body). Remove the Tape immediately after applying the glue.
  • Start at the front center. Move out evenly each side at a time from center pulling out and to the sides. Same with the rear. but stop just after the curve down. Staple.
  • Move back from the front at the sides over the doors. Do one side at a time. Hook the liner onto the prongs. You'll see the heavy wrinkles pull out along the bows as you pull down here.
  • Finish at the 1/4 window moving back and down. Staple along the tacking strip.
  • Finish going down along the rear window strip, pulling down and into the bottom of the Sail panel.
  • Try to get any reveal molding in place. They tend to secure the liner in place somewhat.

 

There is probably more, but this is the basic gist of it. Cheers.



-- Edited by cdnpont on Wednesday 8th of September 2021 11:49:50 AM

Attachments
__________________
65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 
Page 1 of 1  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us
.
Support Canadian Poncho!
Select Amount:
<
.
.
.