Hey folks. I've finally made the commitment to pull the wagon out of storage and take a hard swing at getting it roadworthy over the winter.
I've visited the Poncho forums frequently over the years, but I haven't posted anything in a long time. This forum has been an amazing reference, and some of you helped me source some parts I needed, so I'm grateful for the support and glad that everything here is still alive and well.
I got my wagon from a guy about 25 years ago who swapped out a dead 283 with a 350, but he didn't have all the parts to get it running. I got it running, but not driving because the front end and brakes were totally shot. It got moved around to various storage spots for years, and about 10 years ago I managed to get it back home and got some front end work done before it went back into storage again to make room for priority home renos.
It's back home again, and hopefully I can keep motivated to get it back on the road by spring. I have most of the parts that I need, but I'll post in the Parts Wanted section a couple that I'm looking for.
The body is not too bad overall, and all the parts are there (including the tail light housing). The rockers are rusted (driver's is pretty bad) and there's a couple golf ball sized holes in the floor pans, so hopefully it's not too far gone when I dig into the rust repair. The glass is good except for the windshield (the purple tint will go away), The interior is in fair shape, and surprisingly zero mice activity after all that time in storage.
I've made some progress lately, so I'll break them into separate posts as I find time. Looking forward to any comments, suggestions and guidance as finally bring my old project car back to life.
-- Edited by ZigZag on Friday 17th of February 2023 11:58:42 AM
Everything. Take the whole thing apart and start from the bottom up,
Or do just what's needed, don't go too deep, proudly keep the "patina" get it on the road and do things to improve it as you go along. The car will be better for it. Follow the two week summer rule - No job that will keep it off the road any longer than that, you don't do until winter. You've got some good time right now for the bigger important mechanical and safety stuff. Just patch the rust, clean and detail it all the best you can. Maybe that's seeing it in simplified terms (as I tend to do), but the key is to not sweat the details too much. Just focus on making it roadworthy.
Good luck, I look forward to this!
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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT.
Yeah, path #2 is the route I'll be taking. I'll leave the "coucours" resto to someone with more qualifications and time.
Those are excellent rules to go on. I just need to curb my need to fuss with small details and just get 'er done.
The work I previously got done was the control arms, bushings, sway bar endlinks, tie rods, etc. I still need to address the entire power steering system and joints. Trying to repurpose as much as possible, so everything was cleaned, sandblasted and painted. Yes, losing focus and fussing on small details.
I bought new brake shoes, rubber lines, rear drums, master and wheel cylinders and bearings. The front drums were provided by Roger (rabbit64cs) because new ones are basically "unobtanium". I'll save the disc conversion dreams for another year.
-- Edited by ZigZag on Friday 17th of February 2023 11:59:14 AM
It's been a couple of months since I got the wagon home, so the following is work that I've completed since November. My mother passed away in December, and with some new job stress layered on, it's tough getting back in the garage. I've been managing a couple hours here and there during the week, and maybe a full day on the weekends.
It's been 23 years since it last ran, and I have no idea of the history of the engine - other than it was a 350 taken from a 74 Nova to replace the dead stock 283. The intake and carb is from the 283, and it looks like the kickdown linkage is missing. Back then, I popped by a local wrecker and got the right flywheel, starter and a HEI distributor to get it running, but that's as far as I got.
Thankfully it didn't seize up after all these years, and the crank turns by hand easily. I pulled the plugs to give the cylinders to soak while I changed the oil.
The oil filter was pretty much welded on. I spent a solid hour of throwing everything I had at it. Not a great start to the project.
When I went to pull the distributor to get the fresh oil flowing with the prime tool, I found it was totally seized in. No amount of penetrating oil, heat or pipe wrenching could move it. I even pulled the hood off so I could try a chain and slide hammer on it. Brute force won in the end, but the distributor lost. It was seized in the block and broke off at the bottom. I eventually got the rest of it out with long soaks of penetrating oil, a hammer and chisel.
Everything looks fairly clean with practically no sludge. All valves move and the rockers are snug. Ran the oil prime tool and the oil pump seems to work. Gave it a good prime and everything a good soak with oil.
This engine could be totally clapped-out, so I'll be taking the cheap route whenever possible. I ordered a distributor from Amazon, and got a carb rebuilt kit on order too. Since I'm waiting for parts, might as well clean up and slap some paint on stuff. Yeah I know, the old "Kijiji rebuild" but it's mostly to help my motivation by giving me something pretty to look at.
I pulled out the rad and the gas tank and sent them to a local shop to give them a once-over to patch any holes and clean/seal the gas tank. That small amount of varnish I pulled from the tank stunk up the garage for a week!
The original power steering pump was pretty beat up and full of dirt, so I pulled one from a local wrecker and cleaned it up. I'll need all the hoses and other parts, but that's for later.
The cylinders got a few good long soaks, however the compression tests were not that great. Maybe, MAYBE things will seal up and improve after getting it fired up and running for a bit.
The original Rochester 2-Jet 2G carb got a good cleaning and rebuild. Gotta love how you can pretty much do everything with just a Leatherman.
Carb installed, and the new distributor is in. The cheap ignition module it came with was faulty (apparently a common problem) so I swapped in the old one to get spark.
I blew out the steel fuel line running to the back, and let some CLR sit in it for a few days before flushing it out. Connected a hose to a jerry can of fresh gas at the back, and the pump is pulling gas to the front.
All the usual stuff was replaced: fuel pump, filter, hoses, belts, spark plugs, etc. Replaced the ground cable from the battery to the block, and a couple body ground wires and straps too.
It's starting to look like something that might actually run now.
I set up the gauges nearby to keep an eye on the vitals. A good chunk of the wiring under the hood needs to be replaced, so everything is hotwired for now.
It fired up on the second try! A little advance in the timing and it smoothed out and idles. I honestly thought I'd be in for a fight or disaster, so I'll take a win when I can.
The oil filter plugged up pretty much immediately up and it barfed oil past the seal and everywhere. I figured that would happen, so I had a spare handy. There's a few small leaks to check, but I'll wait for the rad to return so I can run it longer with coolant.
When the rad and gas tank came back from the shop, I tossed in the rad and began some extended runs. Fixed a few leaks here and there, and it seems to run good.
It's charging, but it's bumping over 15V so a new voltage regulator is on order. The old one gave off a smell and occasionally a small wisp of smoke, so it was already on the list.
For years I worried that the gas tank might be too far gone to repair, and wagon tanks are unique and new ones can be expensive. I was stoked to find it was actually in decent shape, and the shop was able to patch a couple small holes, clean and sealed. it. I gave it some quality time with the wire wheel, etching primer, rust paint and rubber rocker guard. Installed a new sending unit and it's ready to go, all for far less than I thought I'd have to spend.
Installed a new ground wire from the body to the sender, and the tank is back in again. 10L of gas doesn't move the needle much, but the gauge appears to be working again. New hoses to the steel line, and it's drinking from it's old tank again.
The next step is the brakes, which brings us up to near current day. I'll pause this long-winded post here and continue when I have more time and content to share.
You are doing excellent and it's my mistake. I thought you had posted this in a continuing day-to-day thread in the lounge. I'm sorry for the confusion.
Keep up the good work. You have us all fooled that you rarely post and aren't 100% sure what you're doing!
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
Yes, awesome posting. I love to follow along to other peoples resurrection stories. I have done the same thing to my wagon but am usually covered in dirt and oil so never take any pictures.
Getting it running and driving will be the best thing for the car and your enthusiasm in the long run.
Also, for that ugly purple window tint. We used to peel the tint and then use foaming glass cleaner and a razor blade to remove to adhesive left behind. not a fun job, but will give you a great result.
Thank you. My phone gets covered in dirt and grease regularly, but I enjoy reflecting back on photos of projects. I doubt I'll go as far as making videos and turn into another YouTuber...
However... maybe I'll make a video for removing the purple tint, and do it like one of those "satisfying" or ASMR videos.
The technology is very simple in these things, gas and spark and theyll maybe run. Very good work on a very nice wagon.
Sorry about your Mom, my Mom would have loved this wagon too.
Keep up the good work.
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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. 1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada
Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic
OK, time to address the brakes. And it needs... everything.
About 10 years ago bought a ton of new parts, including a master cylinder, wheel cylinders, shoes, rubber lines, rear drums and the inner and outer wheel bearings for the front drums. It's all economy or mid-grade stuff from Napa, because I wasn't sure if I'd get as far as doing a disc conversion.
It took hours of hammering on the drums to get the shoes to retract from the deep groves in the drums so I could pull them. Not much was salvageable.
All the steel line fittings were rusted and seized up, and I was breaking or stripping everything I touched. At the time I didn't have the tools to deal with the hard lines, so the brake job was abandoned.
I'm a bit better prepared now. I dug through all the parts bins and took inventory of all the brake parts and drum hardware I previously cleaned up. Looks like it's all there.
Keeping with the "clean and paint if removed" regiment, out came the various wire brushes, cleaning products, primer and paint.
The rear studs were recently replaced so the snowflake rims could be spaced out a little further.
On go the cylinders, shoes and hardware, making sure brake lube was applied where needed, and getting the correct threaded brake adjusters on the proper side (drivers side = righty tighty). The park brake arms are in, but some adjustments are needed upstream before I can connect the cables.
Used VHT high temp brake caliper paint on the drums to give it a fighting chance of lasting. The website says to properly cure the paint, you need to bake for 1 hour a 200°F, so in the oven they go. Pro tip: To cover up the smell of baked car parts in your house, cook a tray of bacon immediately afterwards. Win-win.
The front drums have inner and outer bearings, so the old grease was cleaned out, the new bearings thoroughly packed with new grease. I'm surprised how much grease the bearing channel inside the drum holds.
Note to self: Since the front shoes are wider than the rear, the front shoe hold-down pins are 1/8" longer than the rear ones.
The front drums are installed and turn like butter. The previous paint job is holding up, so good enough.
All shoes are adjusted to drag slightly when the drums are turned, so they should be ready for the final steps.
This concludes the brake work at the drums. The next step is to deal with those dreaded steel lines...
One tip on HEI distributor!! If you hooked coil "Feed" wire up to org. coil wire your not getting 12volts to coil pak due to Factory resistance wire to old points!! It will run but not full spark. Need to run a wire from ign. source with 12 V
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Some times I wake up GRUMPY, but today I let her sleep in !!!!!!!!BLACKSTOCK Ont.
Good to know. Yeah, I think I ran into that problem when I first put in the HEI. I had a relay wired to switched ignition and one lead went to the distributor.
I currently have it wired to an alligator clip at the battery so I can start/stop the engine from under the hood.
The wiring is a mess, but as DonSSDD said, the technology is simple and so is the wiring.
During the initial undercarriage inspection, I seen the rusted connections at the rear rubber line, so I knew I was in for a fight. I already broke the 2 short lines up front, so I had to be prepared to replace everything if necessary.
I picked up a handheld double-flare brake line tool for working with lines directly on a vehicle, and 25' of 3/16 copper coated steel line and some fittings. I already had a pipe bender and cutter, so I should be good to go.
The 2 front lines leading from the rubber lines to the distribution blocks were fairly easy. I already had a couple of pre-fabbed 8" lines, and after some finessing, they were in.
Next is to tackle the connections at the rear rubber line. Since it's right next to the fuel line, I decided NOT to use the torch on it. As expected, the fitting was seized to the line and it twisted up when trying to loosen. I used a pipe cutter to make a clean cut, then got the double flare tool to do it's thing. The flare turned out pretty good.
Since I lost a couple inches off the line putting the new fitting on, I had to straighten out a couple bends upstream a little to make it reach to where the rubber line is anchored.
Those new brake hose clips are Dorman HW1457 if anyone is wondering.
The two remaining steel lines from distribution block on the axle to the rear wheels are shot, so I'll have to make new ones. Might as well deal with the thick sludge buildup on the diff while the lines are off.
The fittings were seized on the block, so I called on "Mr. Bernz" to save the day once again.
Building the new steel lines was pretty straightforward. I used some string to trace the existing lines to get the length, cut the line, installed the fittings and flared the ends. This flare tool is pretty sweet.
I used the old lines as a template for the bends, installed it on the car and finessed the bends a little further. it turned out pretty decent. Doing the steel lines was not as awful as I initially thought, and was actually kinda fun.
I removed the brake booster to clean out the sludge buildup behind it and give everything an inspection and grease.
I wasn't sure if the booster is still good, but it gets the clean and fresh paint treatment all the same.
The master cylinder gets a bench bleed. I'll use DOT 4 when I bleed the system.
Everything is back together and looking not too shabby.
Awhile ago I bought an air bleeder on Amazon for $20, There's few quirks compared to the traditional method, but it does a decent job for those "lone wolf" projects.
The bleeding is complete, and the brake pedal is nice and stiff. Gave it a few good hard pumps, and there wasn't any explosions or leaks.
Since it is technically a drivable vehicle again (hopefully) the hood can go back on.
Next I'll address the wiring mess with the gauges and starter. I ran new wires from the starter, distributor, water temp and oil pressure sensors to inside and wrapped them in heat tape. Tore out all the old wiring from previous work (stereo, etc.) and installed new wiring with inline fuses and couple relays for the starter and accessories. Mounted the tach and trio gauges.
That DIN radio hole in the dash won't be staying. I have a whole new un-butchered dash panel to put in. I also found a new dash pad too.
OK, I've fussed long enough. Time for a test drive... to each end of the lift ramp. I'm not ready to shovel a path in the snow piled up out back.
I bought it in a non-running state, so this will be the first time I've ever driven it on it's own power as the owner. Here goes nothing...
The brake booster seems to be working, and the transmission does the basics. Woo hoo!
Figuring out the power steering is up next. The setup seems a little strange, I'm having trouble finding diagrams with the right parts. Maybe it was a dealer add-on or something. I'll post some pictures when I dig into it.
Nice work, Ive done a very small job with that copper steel line, its much easier to deal with than steel.
Nice improvements, dont recall if I suggested it before but get a the Cdn Pontiac shop manuals and since you cant find a 1964 Pontiac assembly manual, pick up the Chevy one, it is about 90% the same. It will have the stock power steering system. It has a pump run off a pulley with hydraulic lines to a ram cylinder.
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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC. 1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada
Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic
The steering components were caked in gunk, so pulled the center link with the control valve and cylinder off and cleaned it up.
The problem I'm seeing, is the steering wheel has A LOT of play when the car is off - like 1/8 of a turn or more. I checked the gear box and rag joint, and they seem tight. All the play happens at the joint where the pitman arm connects to the control valve. I understand the steering will tighten up when the pump and hydraulics are running, but this seems excessive. Maybe I need a new control valve. Does this amount of play seem normal?
To get the pump working to test, I need the correct high pressure hose. The PS pump I got from the wrecker is "period correct" for the 1974 engine so I had the correct mounting brackets. The pressure valve it has uses the "inverted flare" type fitting, but the new hose I bought online (they claimed was the correct one) has a "o-ring style" fitting. I'll be damned if I can find a new o-ring high pressure fitting or an adapter, and I've had the hose long enough I can't return it. I found this snippet:
I'm going to swing by a steering shop today to see if maybe they have something.
The steering shop referred me to a hydraulics shop, where I was shown a neat little trick. Apparently the inverted flare inside the power valve is removable peice. You just need a small bolt and pliers to yank it out. The tapered seat inside matches the fitting on the hose, so it'll work.
The only problem is, when it's installed on the pump, it's fixed and goes straight off the back and doesn't have a pipe with a 90° bend like the original hose had. This means I'll have to reroute the hose and lose some length in the process.
Installed a new seal kit in the ram cylinder.
Everything is cleaned and painted. My garage is a total disaster from all the grime and rust getting buzzed off with the drill and wire wheel.
New hydraulic lines for the ram. Still waiting for the new low pressure return hose to arrive, so hopefully the old one will hold up for some testing.
Everything is back in, greased up and ready to test. I'm not loving how the hoses are run, but I don't have a whole lot of options.
Fired it up. The pump was angry and everything was stiff, but after the a few end-to-end wheel turns and fluid top-offs, everything began to smooth out and operate quietly. The play in the steering wheel is much better too.
Everything was looking good until..... the low pressure hose popped off and spewed fluid directly on the fan... and everywhere. Definitely in the top 5 of worst garage messes.
It turned out out to be a junk hose clamp. I should have replaced it like I did on the other end.
Well, I better go clean up that mess, and maybe the rest of the garage too.
Everything was looking good until..... the low pressure hose popped off and spewed fluid directly on the fan... and everywhere. Definitely in the top 5 of worst garage messes.
It turned out out to be a junk hose clamp. I should have replaced it like I did on the other end.
Well, I better go clean up that mess, and maybe the rest of the garage too.
That sucks...
Was it a worm gear style clamp? I've tried to quit using those. The band clamps with the bolt/nut seem to work so much better. It seems the worm gear clamps are all made so lightweight now, they can't be tightened up worth anything before they fail.
Nice work by the way.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
The worst ones I've seen have been in dollar stores! If you've never seen those, take a look sometime. About 1\2 the thickness of sheetmetal on a late model economy car. I would never trust one of those for fuel or oil.
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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles
1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars
