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Post Info TOPIC: Disc brakes


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Disc brakes


The partially finished 66 that I bought came with a lot of new and some old parts. One of the parts is this SSBC proportioning valve or is it a dustribution block or is it a combination valve? I am confused. What is the difference? What is the black ssbc valve for? Do I still need a? proportioning valve? Also..previous owner had aftermarket disc's installed up front, drums in back. The 2 front flex brake lines, I assume they are for the front as the back ones are already installed, have a different fitting ( brake line hose bolts) where they connect with the calipers. What am I missing here.  Again this us a half finished oroject and I have found numerous parts test came with the xarc



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Jim way


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The valve is an adjustable proportioning valve. It usually is installed in the rear brake line, as close to the master as possible. 

I have the exact one on my 67, and it worked well in setting up the front rear bias to prevent or lessen rear lockup in a panic stop. You won't need any other proportioning valve beyond that one. In fact, it's really just an option to even install it. Lots of conversions do without.

 https://shop.wilwood.com/blogs/news/how-does-a-proportioning-valve-work#:~:text=When%20adjusting%20the%20proportioning%20valve,valve%20closes%20and%20proportioning%20begins.

 

 

Yes, the lines are certainly fronts as evidenced by the "Banjo" fitting with the crush washers. Your image shows the caliper bleeder screw. The line in fitting/port should be on the backside of the caliper.



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Thanks for the response Mark. You solved my issue
The disc brakes were installed when i bought the car but they are brand new and have never been connected. The factory paint is very thick. I could not find the inlet for the flex hose as it was taped over and then factory painted over the tape. No instructons, no manufacturer. Took me quite some time to discover the taped and painted over inlet for the flex line. At the time i was wondering if the bleed nipple was also the connection for the flex hose and I had the wrong flex hose. Could you possibly post some photos of the positioning of your SSBC valve? You say you have the same one on your car and I would appreciate any direction or tips on installing this part. Thank you again Mark. Much appreciated.

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Jim way


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No problem, glad to help Jim. 

 

There will be an In and Out indicated on the valve body, along with two holes you can use to attach it to a bracket. I made up a small L shaped bracket that used one of the master bolts to mount it.

You'll need to make up two lines. A short line from the master to the block in, and an adapter line out from the block, down to the old rear brake line. The rear line removed from the old junction block if it's still in it's original configuration. Use a female/female inverted flare coupling at that join.

I'm thinking now to keep things simple, there would be no reason you couldn't just mount it right down at that rear brake line starting point. Use the valve itself as the coupling.

 

 

kl.JPG

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Thanks Mark. So just to be clear. With this adjustable valve no other proportioning valve is needed and I can also remove the distribution valve from the equation?

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Jim way


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No other proportioning valve needed. But you will still need a distribution block.

Not sure how far along your conversion is by the previous owner. But I'm assuming the A body, like the B in 66 still had a single master as original?

 

Do you have a dual master already in place? I know you have a new booster. If yes, how have the lines been run at this point? Is there a new 3 port distribution block for the fronts? I converted my 65 to a dual master/front disc, and was able to repurpose the original 4 port distribution block by rotating it 90 degrees on the frame, blocking one port, and using 2 as lines out to the L/R front, and the remaining 1 as the feed in.

Could you take some underhood shots of the master and lines at the frame so we can see what you're up against?

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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I do have a new dual master cylinder. The front brake lines are not yet run. I do not have a distribution block. Can I run a wildwood proportioning valve with this dial valve and no use a distribution block?

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Jim way


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Is this a distribution block? 



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Jim way


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66sdguy wrote:

Is this a distribution block? 


No, that is a 1970 metering valve for the rear brakes in a front disc/rear drum configuration.   

The distribution block will have the 2 lines coming from the master cylinder, a line for each of the front brakes, and a line for the rear.  That's a total of 5 lines.  Depending on the year, it may also have an electrical connection (tan wire) going to the instrument cluster.

I'm going to be a bit blunt here, but your familiarity with brakes isn't that good.   Please have someone help you.





-- Edited by seventy2plus2 on Saturday 8th of April 2023 10:56:16 PM

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My familiarity with brakes is definitely not good. Thanks for pointing that out. Have a great day.

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Jim way


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At the risk of oversimplifying things Jim, here is an illustration of what I think you'd need. I've had good success with the same. No additional valves or doodads are required.

Line and fitting sizes to be determined. 

brakes22.JPG

 

If I were closer, I'd come out and help you out. Making lines is just about my favorite thing to do. But don't be intimidated. You can buy pre bent lines for the fronts and smaller pre made sections to get to the block and valve. Your local Napa has all the fittings.

If you still have the original 4 port dist block in place, you can buy a male inverted flare plug and convert it to a 3 port.

bnll.JPG



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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You are a gem on this site Mark. Thank you for taking the time to share this with me. I have had a dozen or more collector cars over the years and spent thousands of hours restoring and repairing them. I have never spent much time on brakes other than shoe replacement and bleeding from time to time. I have replaced cams, rockers, timing chains, refit my 700 r4, rear axle replacement, 3rd member swap on my 57. Etc. Brakes? Nada. You have made my day with your patience. As you can see by one of the comments above not everyone is willing to help a person seeking direction on a project. Not sure why they would even respond. Thanks again Mark. Heading out to the garage today feeling much more confident.

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Jim way


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Let's keep this going. Take some pictures of what is in place at this point. Jim, you are obviously a proven mechanic, don't let brakes intimidate you.

Yes, obviously they are the most critical component, but taking your time to make it right will work out just fine.

 

One thing we need to know about your master... Does the rear brake port have a residual valve in place. In that is it a Disc/Drum master? As a starting point this needs to be right.

I'll help you best I can here, it's a pleasure to help.

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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I will post some photos today Mark. Thanks again.

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66sdguy wrote:

As you can see by one of the comments above not everyone is willing to help a person seeking direction on a project. Not sure why they would even respond.


 Sorry about that, my intention wasn't to ruffle feathers.  The intent was to say brakes aren't something to fumble through, and to engage someone more knowledgeable.  



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Integral residual valve;

 

A good initial indicator of the presence of the valve will be a brass tube nut seat. If you see the seat as cast, then there will be no valve.

Gently place a small drill bit into the hole, you should feel a slight resistance of the valve. If the bit goes all the way in, no valve.

 

It has become necessary to check this today, due to the poor quality of offshore parts. Just because it is advertised as having a valve, they may not.

 

The front port to the discs cannot have a valve or the brakes will drag. Valve only required in the rear system.

If it turns out you have no valve, then a more economical way (rather than a new master), would be to add one in line. Wilwood 10lb.

rv1.JPGrv2.JPG

 

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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66sdguy wrote:

You are a gem on this site Mark. Thank you for taking the time to share this with me. I have had a dozen or more collector cars over the years and spent thousands of hours restoring and repairing them. I have never spent much time on brakes other than shoe replacement and bleeding from time to time. I have replaced cams, rockers, timing chains, refit my 700 r4, rear axle replacement, 3rd member swap on my 57. Etc. Brakes? Nada. You have made my day with your patience. As you can see by one of the comments above not everyone is willing to help a person seeking direction on a project. Not sure why they would even respond. Thanks again Mark. Heading out to the garage today feeling much more confident.


 You've got the best in the business helping you out! Mark is a our guru here with stuff like this, as you've noticed!



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Great info Mark. So I slipped a paper clip into both ports in the master and neither offered any reluctance to the paper clip. In one photo you can see the paper clip and the fact it easily slipped at least 2 inches into the port with zero resistance. Time to look into the wilwood inline 10 lb? I am posting a few photos although there is really nothing to see as far as brake lines up front yet. I will start with the flex hoses today and work my way towards the booster master cylinder installing steel lines. All the lines, booster, and a ton of other stuff came in a box in the trunk when I bought the car. Frame off was done, new Eaton 343 posi. Rebuilt m20, and a fresh rollered 454. Not my desire to drive a big blick ss much as I drive my cars. Fresh dyno'd full roller crate engine...401 hp. Plenty for me. The car is a documented sd 283 sold at Empress Motors in Victoria.


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Jim way


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Photos Mark



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Jim way


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I have surely noticed Carl. Invaluable information and experience coming my way from Mark. 



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Jim way


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Yes, as found you'll need the 10lb on the rear. You can see one in my original picture of my 67's master. 

 

Place it in-line before the adjustable valve.

The one symptom of the lack of a check valve is you will continuously have an excess of pedal travel. The brakes will certainly work, but you'll not feel at ease with them.

Bleeding the rears can also be a bear without it. It'll be 40 bucks well spent I think.

 

Ah, yes, there's the rear line I assume!

brake12.jpg

 

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Not much for photos Mark.  More to come as I move forward. 



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Jim way


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I'd say you have most everything you'll need

It'll be a challenge to get the front right line across the crossmember motor in, but it can be done.



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Thanks for all your help Mark, very much appreciated. I will gather all necessary parts and lines and get to work. Can you recommend a line bender? Napa? Lordco? Amazon? 



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Jim way


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Which brakeline is easiest for a rookie. Nickle alloy. Aluminum, stainless?.



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