65-70 Rear Coil Springs

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

65-70 Rear Coil Springs

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I put new Moog CC601 "Cargo Coil" springs in the rear of both my 70 Parisienne & 70 2+2 convertible.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

seventy2plus2 wrote:
I put new Moog CC601 "Cargo Coil" springs in the rear of both my 70 Parisienne & 70 2+2 convertible.

Those are listed for all body styles except station wagon though. Have you ever tried station wagon springs in an other-than-wagon application? That is what I'd like to try but it's a lot of work to experiment with wagon coils and I'm hoping someone has already tried it.

beaumontguru · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

If it was me i would save the rear coils out of both those wagons. they will be better and HD'er than most of the new stuff today. also, if its anything like the chevelles, those rear wagon springs are no longer made, and even detroit spring cant make my 64 9 passenger springs anymore.

Are the 66 pontiac springs any harder to change than a chevelle? i can swap out my rears in about 1 hour or less, done it many times

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

beaumontguru wrote:
If it was me i would save the rear coils out of both those wagons. they will be better and HD'er than most of the new stuff today. also, if its anything like the chevelles, those rear wagon springs are no longer made, and even detroit spring cant make my 64 9 passenger springs anymore.
Are the 66 pontiac springs any harder to change than a chevelle? i can swap out my rears in about 1 hour or less, done it many times

I was thinking about maybe even saving the used ones out of the other wagon, good suggestion.

The B body spring is not as nice as the A body to change, unfortunately. The bottom sits on the lower control arm and it's not that much fun trying to get it into place. I've done them though, there's worse jobs for sure! And a hoist is certainly better than lying on your back on concrete.

Mevotech still offers rear springs for our B bodies but it seems Moog and TRW don't any more.

whiskeydog · Addicted!

Carl, I installed a set in the 80s from an Impala wagon and had to take them out. It took 3 semi brake drums in the trunk (about 300 pounds) to make the ride tolerable. Installing the coils is not recommended for the effort to change back however, seem to recall it not being much more than the shock disconnect and jacking the side up, not the end of the world for a retired guy. You can see in the avatar pic how saggy the bionic banana was before and why I was looking for an increase in ride height. It was up a bit more than expected but, stiff beyond belief. The wagon coils are for the intended application only, think of how many sheets of 3/4 ply you could stuff in a wagon before it would squat.. I hadnt thought about that before I installed mine.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Thank you!

That was definitely a concern. When I check the load rating I see it takes about an extra 200 pounds to compress the coil 1" when you compare wagon vs. hardtop. I think I'll likely stick with what I have in the Grande Parisienne for now then and maybe look at other options. Maybe a used set if I can get them from a car that isn't sagged out, or possibly a new pair of jobber coils for a hardtop that aren't so heavy. I don't want the car to lift a whole bunch, maybe just an inch or so in the back.

And yes, us retired guys have nothing but time on our hands (LOL, that is sure NOT the case for me at least!)

Again, I really appreciate the input.

DANO65 · Poncho Master!

Carl, I have used 65 wagon springs in the back of my 65, 1 coil cut. Been in there over 30 years now, no issues, rides nice.

You may want to try with out cutting first as you may want yours to sit higher than mine.

And yes If I remember right the wagon coil is a heavier wire than what was in the hardtop to start with.

-- Edited by DANO65 on Monday 24th of June 2024 09:14:22 AM

-- Edited by DANO65 on Monday 24th of June 2024 09:24:22 AM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Just an added note to this. Today I took the new wagon springs (which I assume are Cargo Coils) and placed them beside original 60 year old used wagon springs.

The Cargo Coil wire is about .780" and the original springs are about .720", enough of a difference that you can tell just by looking at it, they are not the same. Height however is pretty much identical.

Now I have to decide, do I try used wagon springs in the Grande Parisienne or the new wagon Cargo Coils? I don't want it to be too high, but higher than it is now. I'm leaning towards trying the used wagon springs.

20240730_165713[1].jpg

flatop · Addicted!

flatop · Addicted!

Sorry for the upside down Carl. This car had wagon springs ,way to high and no give . I'm betting you will be not liking them and taking them back out .They also were a little bigger in diameter and seemed to have been rubbing on the backside of the frame pocket the whole time they were in there.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

flatop wrote:
Sorry for the upside down Carl.this car had wagon springs ,way too high and no give . Im betting you will be not liking them and taking them back out .They also were a little bigger in diameter and seemed to have been rubbing on the backside of the frame pocket the whole time they were in there.

-- Edited by flatop on Tuesday 30th of July 2024 08:53:25 PM

Fixed the inversion issue.

But wow, I know it has no engine which explains the front. However, you are right, the back is way too high for my liking.

I do like the Grande Parisienne tail panel on the Parisienne convert though!

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

This is how my car currently sits and it has no buckets, no console, no back seat, no spare tire and no jack. Those items must add 200 pounds or maybe a bit more.

When the time comes I think I'll pull the springs out of it, compare height and wire size with the wagon springs and go from there. I have a feeling Dano's idea with cutting one coil off the wagon coils may be pretty close to what I will need.

20240409_115212[1].jpg

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

flatop wrote:
Sorry for the upside down Carl. This car had wagon springs ,way too high and no give . I'm betting you will be not liking them and taking them back out .They also were a little bigger in diameter and seemed to have been rubbing on the backside of the frame pocket the whole time they were in there.

One thing I never thought to ask you --- were they used wagon springs in that car, or brand new springs, maybe ever wagon Cargo Coils? What makes me think maybe they were Cargo Coils is the larger wire diameter?

flatop · Addicted!

they were new to the car at the time 20 plus years ago ,not used springs

-- Edited by flatop on Tuesday 30th of July 2024 10:02:08 PM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

flatop wrote:
they were new to the car at the time 20 plus years ago ,not used springs

Ok, that pretty much tells me I sure don't want to try the new ones without cutting them! Thanks, that helps lots.

North · Guru

That is absolutely perfect factory stance! Brings out the coke bottle look, avoids the "battleship look of that big long rear overhang pointing skyward and the car can stop properly! Leave it be!

4SPEED427 wrote:
This is how my car currently sits and it has no buckets, no console, no back seat, no spare tire and no jack. Those items must add 200 pounds or maybe a bit more.
When the time comes I think I'll pull the springs out of it, compare height and wire size with the wagon springs and go from there. I have a feeling Dano's idea with cutting one coil off the wagon coils may be pretty close to what I will need.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

North wrote:
That is absolutely perfect factory stance! Brings out the coke bottle look, avoids the "battleship look of that big long rear overhang pointing skyward and the car can stop properly! Leave it be!
4SPEED427 wrote:
This is how my car currently sits and it has no buckets, no console, no back seat, no spare tire and no jack. Those items must add 200 pounds or maybe a bit more.
When the time comes I think I'll pull the springs out of it, compare height and wire size with the wagon springs and go from there. I have a feeling Dano's idea with cutting one coil off the wagon coils may be pretty close to what I will need.

Oh cool, glad you like it! The problem is the car has no interior in that picture, no spare tire or jack and an empty fuel tank.

After this picture I'm still adding 2 bucket seats (passenger side has the recliner, driver side is power), back seat, carpet, underlay, trunk mat, jack and spare tire, power antenna, reel out trunk light and the full tank of gas. Combined that must be about 300 pounds at least. Then add a driver and we're thinking 500 more pounds when it's driving down the highway vs this picture.

I don't want it nose down, but I'm sure it will be too low in the back with these springs once it's done.

LT1Caddy · Poncho Master!

How about a set of the spacers that GM installed in the AC equipped cars. I think you will know what I mean. Did they come in two sizes? You only want to bring the rear up an inch or so...

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

LT1Caddy wrote:

How about a set of the spacers that GM installed in the AC equipped cars. I think you will know what I mean. Did they come in two sizes? You only want to bring the rear up an inch or so...

My concern is the original springs may be a bit soft due to their age as well as the added weight to the car.