283 Engine diagnosis-help needed

Islander · Addicted!

283 Engine diagnosis-help needed

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Islander wrote:

Hopefully someone out there more mechanically inclined than me will have an idea where to start with this. My car had been stored since 1993 with 68000 miles. When the person I bought it from purchased it in 2003, he changed the plugs, points oil and filter and started it up. It ran well after it warmed up. Just recently after changing the waterpump, coolant etc. I attempted to start it. It was cranking slowly so I removed the plugs and squirted a few squirts of oil in each cylinder and let it sit for a few days. Before I put the plugs back in I spun it over and it seem to crank as an engine with the plugs out should. Smooth, no strange mechanical noises. I put the plugs in, pumped the carb to ensure there was fuel, checked for spark and turned the key. After about three revolutions it started up. As it was in the garage I shut it off, pushed it outside and tried again. It didn't want to crank at any real speed and when I checked there was fuel dripping at the throttle shaft, and upon pulling the plugs they were wet with fuel. I pulled all the plugs, dried them out reinstalled them. I then tried to jump start it thinking I had run down the battery. With every crank it got slower and slower even with the battery hooked to a running car. I noticed the engine misting out of the breather. It seems the engine was building crankcase pressure. Is this a sign of a stuck valve or????? I pulled one valve cover and the rockers all move as they should. I'm off to the garage to pull the other valve cover and check. Any insight would be appreciated.

Kevin

A few things come to mind.

-It could have stuck rings from sitting so much, causing the "blowby". The slow cranking may just be a starter issue.

-If it's cranking slow after the carb dripped in, are the cylinders full of fuel? Maybe pull the plugs and crank it with them out but make sure you don't have a spark if it happens to pump fuel out the plug holes or you could have a fire.

I think I would try that as well as charge the battery up real well and make sure all the connections are good.

Islander · Addicted!

Just pulled the plugs and they are wet with fuel.....question ....would excess fuel slow the cranking sped down that much? The battery is fully charged, new positive lead and clean ground connection at the battery and the block etc. Had the starter out and it spins smooth with no load....better than another spare I have...would swap but is for 168? tooth (larger)flexplate. Seems to build crankcase pressue very rapidly....

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

It would crank slower if there is raw fuel in the cylinders (liquid lying on the pistons) because it's impossible to compress liquid, so it makes your compression higher. It's unlikely it dripped in that much but not impossible.

Did you crank it with the plugs out? If so, it will have pretty much purged any raw fuel from the cylinders.

Islander · Addicted!

I just pulled the plugs and they are damp.....I'm going to pull the other valve cover and crank it over with the plugs out to make sure the valvetrain is moving as it should. If the rings are stuck would it build that much pressure so quickly?
Running out of time tonight......darn family sustaining, hobby maintaining job to go to in the morning smile

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I'm not just sure on the stuck rings question. I wish I had experience that would say exactly what the problem is.

It might be worth doing a compression test?

Islander · Addicted!

I guess thats next. I'm just miffed that it started once and I shut it off to avoid gasing myself in the garage. Seemed like it was going to be good to go, sounded fine....Anyhoo thanks for the insight Carl.

Beaumont4008 · Uber Guru

How old is the fuel ? Did you use fresh gas ? If its old gas you can crank it all day long and it will not start. Just a thought.

Islander · Addicted!

Unfortunately a fresh tank.....

davelacourse · Poncho Master!

I went through endless problems trying to get my old 261 running well ... similar problems to you. Suggestions:

1. You say "fuel dripping at the throttle shaft" = need to rebuild carb, the gaskets etc. go bad from sitting and once fuel is flowing again they leak, causing many problems.

2. Slow cranking = buy a new battery. You *cannot* charge up an old battery or run it with another car connected and get the same ooomph for starting as a new battery.

Hopefully that will do it for you. However, I also ended up:

3. buying a new fuel pump (similar problem occurs as with carb)

4. buying a new [rebuilt] starter (similar problem as old battery, they just get worn and do not work as well, bench spin notwithstanding)

5. pulling/boiling/coating the fuel tank (adding new fuel does not remove the crud that has deposited in the tank over many years, and the crud *will* work its way into the carb and mess things up

Yeah lots of time and money, you would like to believe the prior owner "oh it starts right up and runs fine" but it sat for 17 years and things continued to deteriorate. Sorry.

But it is all easy to do at relatively modest cost. Just keep ait it!

Good luck,
Dave

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Islander wrote:

Hopefully someone out there more mechanically inclined than me will have an idea where to start with this. My car had been stored since 1993 with 68000 miles. When the person I bought it from purchased it in 2003, he changed the plugs, points oil and filter and started it up. It ran well after it warmed up. Just recently after changing the waterpump, coolant etc. I attempted to start it. It was cranking slowly so I removed the plugs and squirted a few squirts of oil in each cylinder and let it sit for a few days. Before I put the plugs back in I spun it over and it seem to crank as an engine with the plugs out should. Smooth, no strange mechanical noises. I put the plugs in, pumped the carb to ensure there was fuel, checked for spark and turned the key. After about three revolutions it started up. As it was in the garage I shut it off, pushed it outside and tried again. It didn't want to crank at any real speed and when I checked there was fuel dripping at the throttle shaft, and upon pulling the plugs they were wet with fuel. I pulled all the plugs, dried them out reinstalled them. I then tried to jump start it thinking I had run down the battery. With every crank it got slower and slower even with the battery hooked to a running car. I noticed the engine misting out of the breather. It seems the engine was building crankcase pressure. Is this a sign of a stuck valve or????? I pulled one valve cover and the rockers all move as they should. I'm off to the garage to pull the other valve cover and check. Any insight would be appreciated.

Kevin

If it's heavily flooded the fuel could have washed the oil down from the cylinder walls, hampering lubrication. Did you check the oil at the crankcase plug - oil, or lots of gas mixed in?

chader · Guru

I have a old small block that will flood if you forget to pull the manual choke off. At that point if I do not replace the oil and plugs it wil be a loosing battle. Cleaning the plugs does not cut it. It is so great when you fire it up after changing everything and it runs so good. Your problem sounds so similar to what I experiance, I would try it first. Good luck!

Islander · Addicted!

Thanks guys...I guess I'm just being too optimistic that being run only a few times in 17 years won't mean going over the basics. I also was trying to resist doing to much and end up with the car in boxes. I talked to a good friend and went over a few things with him. He feels the starter is probably the first issue and the carb is next. The original style fuel pump is cranking out fuel like no tomorrow, but for how long? I have a new one waiting to go just in case. Does anyone know where I could get a rebuild kit for the original "screw together" fuel pump. I like the looks of it, its similar to new high perfomance mehanical pumps. I thought I saw a thread on CP about these but can't find it......

Islander · Addicted!

gparis7 wrote:

Islander wrote:

Hopefully someone out there more mechanically inclined than me will have an idea where to start with this. My car had been stored since 1993 with 68000 miles. When the person I bought it from purchased it in 2003, he changed the plugs, points oil and filter and started it up. It ran well after it warmed up. Just recently after changing the waterpump, coolant etc. I attempted to start it. It was cranking slowly so I removed the plugs and squirted a few squirts of oil in each cylinder and let it sit for a few days. Before I put the plugs back in I spun it over and it seem to crank as an engine with the plugs out should. Smooth, no strange mechanical noises. I put the plugs in, pumped the carb to ensure there was fuel, checked for spark and turned the key. After about three revolutions it started up. As it was in the garage I shut it off, pushed it outside and tried again. It didn't want to crank at any real speed and when I checked there was fuel dripping at the throttle shaft, and upon pulling the plugs they were wet with fuel. I pulled all the plugs, dried them out reinstalled them. I then tried to jump start it thinking I had run down the battery. With every crank it got slower and slower even with the battery hooked to a running car. I noticed the engine misting out of the breather. It seems the engine was building crankcase pressure. Is this a sign of a stuck valve or????? I pulled one valve cover and the rockers all move as they should. I'm off to the garage to pull the other valve cover and check. Any insight would be appreciated.

Kevin

If it's heavily flooded the fuel could have washed the oil down from the cylinder walls, hampering lubrication. Did you check the oil at the crankcase plug - oil, or lots of gas mixed in?

With the carb the way it is I've been checking that but seems okay, level is the same...doesn't smell of gas.....

69ss · Addicted!

I recently had an issue with my carburator,since your car was sitting for so long the carb could be varnished.Carburators are very finicky, your car might have started but if your carb has a built in accelerator pump it might not be working.I would take the distributor out and get a long standard screwdriver cut the handle off stick it in a drill then down the distributor hole. Stick it in the oil pump and prime the motor,if you have an oil preasure guage check to see you have good oil preasure to the top end of your motor,If you don't have a guage then take off your rocker covers and make sure that oil is getting to the top of your motor.I would do this untill you see alot of oil,then you will know that the motor is getting lubricated.I recently had my motor completly rebuilt from top to bottom, the carb worked perfect before the motor was rebuilt but when I took my carb off I must have stretched the choke spring just a little and I had problems getting it started.There is a guy that I went to see His company is called SPECIALTY CARBURETORS they specilize in rebuilding and restoring of antique and classic carbs this guy knows his stuff and his prices are good.He is located in Toronto Ont His # is toll free:1 877292-9751 or 416 259-7877.Give him a call he might be able to help you out.I hope I helped you Good luck