Standard 65-66 cluster to Rally gauge cluster

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Standard 65-66 cluster to Rally gauge cluster

Pontiacanada · A Poncho Legend!

Carl Stevenson wrote:
I would have started tonight, but when I got home from the wrecking yard trip I made on Tuesday, I took the 2 halves of my nice 8 pin connector and put them away for safe keeping........... Need I say more? I've already spent at least an hour looking for them.

I like this type of stuff ... upgrading, but keeping the original look ... and it could always be brought back to original. Interesting thread.

I'm famous for putting stuff away for "safe keeping". There are a few things that I've put away, needed, and now have looked for several years, and I consider myself an organized person. doh

I once put my wedding band in a secure place for six months!

-- Edited by Pontiacanada on Saturday 14th of January 2012 08:07:08 AM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I had over 4 hours in waiting rooms today with my son (basketball injury to his knee) so I took my notes along I made last night. One thing I can't figure out yet---why does the Canadian cluster have two green wires going to the connector for the temperature light? I know older GM's had a "cold" light but these two wires would light the same bulb, the red "temp" bulb. There is only one temp sender on an engine though.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Well, on the 69 at least, off the std cluster, I know one dark green goes to the sender, one goes to the ign switch "on" position. I think it's simply a bulb function test.

Have you been looking at this Carl. Might be similar.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Yes, I read that over Mark. Quite similar all right, even the double green to the temp light.

I see no reason to use a second green with a temp light (not that I need to worry because I'm eliminating it when I install gauges) because the pink powers the gauge and then the green goes to the sender which provides the ground, which in turn activates the gauge.

Fake68 · Guru

I think the second wire lights the bulb before the engine starts... ie. all the lights come on when the key is turned on to check for burned bulbs. Once running it only lights when the switch activates.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Does it hook up to the wire that goes to the solenoid? Is that what you are saying? Good thinking about it lighting up on crank though.

Last night I got as far as making up the lighting harness. Now on to the harness for the gauges, signals and high beam indicator.

And by the way Ken (66GrandeGuy) that cluster you sent me has been priceless in helping me sort this out!

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Sunday 15th of January 2012 06:46:47 PM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

So, #1 son is off to see his girlfriend, #1 daughter and mom are watching a movie on the laptop, so..............

I decided to work on the rest of the harness. Relatively simple except when I pulled the US dash, I made one small error. I grabbed enough sockets to fill the holes in the back. However, I didn't grab all the right ones. They are the same size as the sockets for all the lights behind the dash, such as for fuel gage, ammeter, radio, heater control etc. Thus, I don't know the colours of all the wires. I had promised I'd post up a conversion from US to Canada. Instead, I will post up what the Canadian colours are for each indicator and gauge, that's the best I can do!

This all is relatively easy. Basically, I will snip the connector off the back of the Cdn cluster as close to the plug as I can. Even closer than this one is cut. I asked Ken to cut this one of this way so I had some colour coding to figure it all out.

This is what each port in the connector is for. The black connector has numbers with each port. The one that says park brake is blank because the connector he sent me is from a car with no park brake warning lamp.

I used the 6 other wires listed (gray wires for the instrument cluster general lighting wll be in a different connector) and made up a harness and connector.

Now when I remove my dash and snip the printed circuit plug-in connector off I will have those 6 bare wires waiting for crimp on terminals. Those 6 terminals will slip in to the separate plug in this picture, then clip into my new harness.

Clear as mud?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Looking through some pictures of Pontiac dashes I have saved, I just noticed something I had never caught before. This is a 65 dash, as evidenced by the knob for the light switch, 65 style only.

Notice the wording on the oil gauge?

Notice the wording on the 66 gauge?

And another 65 gauge cluster picture--- 65 Gauge.jpg

66 Grande guy · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Glad its going well. You're pretty darn ambitious today!

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I still plan to eliminate those little white wire ties and wrap it with the correct non-sticky tape that GM used in those years. I have that stuff thanks to 427Carl a few years back.

And not really much ambition needed. Just sat at an old desk in the basement with soldering gun, some terminals, basic crimpers/cutters etc and have at 'er!

Also I will test it all with a 12 volt battery to make sure it's all good.

The biggest headache will be the oil sending unit. It's an oddball. I found a great thread about it on Performance Years forum. Next to impossible to find, they are 33 ohm senders. A guy on there explains how to make your own. My first attempt at making one failed due to my lack of patience (I cracked a fragile little piece inside it) but I will be trying again.

Here's the thread about it-

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669679

Beaumont4008 · Uber Guru

Its coming along Carl. I love these kind of posts. Nothing like adapting the non tippical part to your car. Making it work when its not suppose to always interested me. keep at it.

-- Edited by Beaumont4008 on Thursday 19th of January 2012 09:49:21 AM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Carl Stevenson wrote:
I would have started tonight, but when I got home from the wrecking yard trip I made on Tuesday, I took the 2 halves of my nice 8 pin connector and put them away for safe keeping........... Need I say more? I've already spent at least an hour looking for them.

And now since I was done wiring the plug on to the harness, guess what connector I found tonight.

Soooooooooo, here's the new improved wiring. I am much happier with this setup.

Now my cluster lighting is/will be all in one plug.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I advertised one of those on here a couple of years ago and couldn't give it away! I put it on ebay and if I am right it went for somewhere around 376 bucks!

Beautiful cluster!

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I was kidding about the free but I think I offered it in the 150 range maybe?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Old ad...... http://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t16670949/rally-gauge-cluster-for-67-and-68-full-size/

I must have deleted the asking price in the ad once it went to ebay.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I was surprised too but maybe it's more work than a lot of guys are wanting to tackle.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Carl Stevenson wrote:
I was surprised too but maybe it's more work than a lot of guys are wanting to tackle.

The biggest thing for me Carl would be taking a totaly pristine dash apart to do it. Would it ever go back together the same? I'm even reluctant to pull mine apart just to repair the clock!

Good job, can't wait to see the end result!

65wagon · Poncho Master!

hey Carl did you try Ames for the sending units

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Yes, no luck. I've spent a bunch of time on Performance Years forum as well and the guys all say they are hen's teeth.

I found a few senders that are close but no cigar. I will likely try to modify another one.

I emailed a place that has a HUGE selection of sending units. I need 35 ohms at 60 psi and the best I can find is about 45 ohms at 60 psi. Still not close enough.

whiskeydog · Addicted!

I am in the same boat with my 65. Found this some time ago, just haven't got around to it yet. Tony.

Oh boy, I just finished reading all the other posts and see you found it. Let me know if it works well for you.

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=669679&page=3

65-66 oil pressure sending unit DIY mods

Awhile back I was researching the O/P sending units for 65-66 B body cars, and I was informed that they're not repopped and fiddling with resistors doesn't make them accurate either. So if you have a car with gauges and need a sending unit, you have to find a used or NOS one which could cost some major dough.

I had a newer Delco sending unit (P/N 14036243) laying around that I knew was wrong for my car, but works fine on many other Pontiacs. This part had a max resistance of 90 ohms and a 65-66 gauge for B-body only needs a max of 33 ohms.

I decided to just rip it open and make internal mods. Here's how I did it.

1. Carefully cut the housing off along the ridge. Use a Dremel cutoff wheel, or something similar.

2. Knock the rivets off the plate that holds the resistance wire.

3. Unwind the wire and shorten so you have approx. 33 ohms of resistance. Use an ohm meter and find the point along the wire where 33 ohms is read. Leave a little extra to hold down the wire ends.

4. Rewind the shortened wire on the plate covering the entire length of the plate as it was before.

5. Use a suitable epoxy to hold the rivets in place

6. Put the cover on and epoxy the seam. Sand and paint.

-- Edited by whiskeydog on Friday 20th of January 2012 11:04:11 PM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I plan to try again but want to do it with a used sending unit. Sounds like another item to put on my wrecking yard list.

67Poncho · Uber Guru

Carl, you have power and ground supplied? Cluster grounded as well? You have one alligator on ground and the other alligator to the wire "coming" from the OPSU to the gauge?

The oil gauge shouldn't move till pressure comes up..... Just like your truck!!!

-- Edited by 67Poncho on Thursday 2nd of February 2012 11:08:39 PM

rabbit64cs · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

+12 vdc to one side of the gauge, the other side to the sending out, the 1/8npt to -12 or ground to complete the circuit?

is that not right ? the sending unit varies the resistence to ground. 0 ohms usually takes the gauge to full travel .

ALSO do a little homework on basic resister theory. resisters in parallel 3 - 90 ohm resisters in parallel = 30 ohms !!!!!

http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Electronics/parallel-resistor-calculator.htm

-- Edited by rabbit64cs on Thursday 2nd of February 2012 11:10:06 PM

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I have been following the other thread (on Performance Years US forum) about building your own oil pressure sending unit for a 66 gauge cluster, since they are virtually unobtainable.

I decided to test my gauge tonight to make sure the figure of 35 ohms would indeed register about 60 lbs on my gauge, and test all along the scale up to there for accuracy.

I borrowed our Kent Moore current generator from our dealership, thanks to Vince's suggestion. You hook it up to the resistor dial and vary the ohms while you watch the gauge. When I do this, I can't even get my gauge to move. I am trying to figure out if my gauge is bad.

My question for you guys who have a driving car with factory gauges is this---

When you get in and turn on your key but don't start the car, does the oil gauge needle move at all before you start the car? I don't understand well enough how the oil gauge works to figure out where my problem is here. I am thinking the temp gauge won't move at all but the oil gauge will?