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Post Info TOPIC: Standard 65-66 cluster to Rally gauge cluster


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RE: Standard 65-66 cluster to Rally gauge cluster


Carl Stevenson wrote:

It's not impossible but it was supposed to be correct.

One thought I had is that the temp gauges likely show hot sooner on the old gauges than the new ones. In the 60's, "hot" was considered to be about 200 I think, with 212 being max that was safe. I think the factory thermostat in our cars was a 160 degrees.

Have you tried a heat gun just to see actual vs. indicated temp?


 Hi carl thanks I will  have to do that.  It was a unit you had sent me with the speedo.  GM if I remember the box correctly. I have it somewhere I think.  I'll have to look.



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS 

1968 Citroen Fourgonnette (Yeah Carl!)



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Makes sense, it likely was. I brought a new GM unit home from work with me today to test with my meter.

At room temp, about 75 degrees, it tested at 583 ohms, similar to what the guy in the link above said his original tests at. I have 4 used ones I checked. They were at 618 680 704 727, quite a bit off as far as the new OEM unit goes.

I plan to do a more scientific test with these one day when I have more time.

I plan to check the one I installed in my car as well.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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Interesting. I brought home a brand new temp sender off the shelf in the parts department to test compared to some used ones I have. When I opened the box it had a sending unit in it all right, plus this!

Could this be the spring that is inside one of these units? If not, I have NO idea what this is or how it ended up in the new GM parts box.

<img src="/download.spark?ID=1352270&aBID=118110" border="0" alt="DSCF0093.JPG" title="DSCF0093.JPG" />

DSCF0093.JPG

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Sunday 7th of July 2013 09:51:00 PM

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Ok, I had 5 sending units to test, one brand new GM part out of the box, 12334869 which is a change up from the original 1513321 that would have been used in 65-66.

One of the senders is made slightly different than the rest. In the charts, it's #1. I suspect it is likely an aftermarket part.

Anyway, I tested them in a pot of water, measuring water temp with a digital cooking thermometer and a "gun" to verify.


___      1_     2_     3_     4_      5 (new)

210*    95    90     96     94      78

195*   104   102   102     --      80

175*   122   122   111   100     93

160*   160   138   148   139    125

145*   174   152   169   160    150

75*     727   680   704    618    583


Had an "oops" with unit #4 at the 195 degree mark, no reading.

One thing you will notice. The new sending unit is pretty much consistently lower ohms, and a smaller number equates to a higher reading on the gauge. I am convinced I will have the same high reading on mine when I finally get to run it.

Unit #5 is showing very similar resistance at 175 degrees as the other 4 used sending units showed just before boiling.

Ken, do you want me to mail you one of these used ones to try, or do you have something on the yard that has one you can swap in? It's the same sender in many many GM's in that era, likely even old 1/2 tons. If you have one that you think will be right, give me the application and I can look up to make sure it's the correct one.



-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Sunday 7th of July 2013 10:33:51 PM



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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A heat gun test before hand may help you decide if you want to change it or not. That could reveal a difference between actual and indicated temps.

-- Edited by Carl Stevenson on Sunday 7th of July 2013 10:26:39 PM

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Holy smokes Carl Thats a lot of work.  Impressive.  I'll look through my collection of tired tin and see what I can dig up for a replacement.  I'll give it a try and let you know.



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS 

1968 Citroen Fourgonnette (Yeah Carl!)



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I'll do that first, you bet.  Don't want to fry the 396.



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ken from northern Alberta

38 Willys pickup electric

39 Buick (327 with 700 r4)

66 Beaumont 4 door hardtop

69 Chevy CST pickup

1976 GMC 23'  motorhome

1994 Impala SS 

1968 Citroen Fourgonnette (Yeah Carl!)

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No, certainly not.

Keep me posted. I can get something out to you pronto if you need it.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Well, for a variety of reasons, including laziness, I have not done much on the car the past year. However, it is 33 here today, so for fun I rolled the car outside and put gas in the brand new gas tank that I put on a while back. I had never run the car since removing the old tank, so I had no idea if the tach and gauges even worked other than they tested perfect.

SUCCESS!



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Sweet! noticed the temp gauge moving, don't have one on mine, so that's kink of cool to watch, same with the oil pressure. I do have a spare dash for my 65 2+2 with gauges, wonder if I can swamp that out?
Something to ponder on a rainy day. Enjoy the weather!

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65 Catalina 2+2 421 4bbl,  Auto, White, w/red interior, Buckets w/column shift.

66 Grande Parisienne, 2dr HT, 327 4bbl, Auto.

Had the 66 since about 83 and the 65 since 88.
Both still require a lot of work.


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Good morning, is there a tutorial on removing the cluster gauge from the dash?  Thank you in advance,  Ty



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macsleuth wrote:

Sweet! noticed the temp gauge moving, don't have one on mine, so that's kind of cool to watch, same with the oil pressure. I do have a spare dash for my 65 2+2 with gauges, wonder if I can swamp that out?

Something to ponder on a rainy day. Enjoy the weather!





It would be a much easier swap on your 2+2 (US car to US car instead of US car to Canadian car). I suspect it would be relatively easy although it's been a while since I've seen the back side of a US car idiot light cluster to say for sure.

It's really not even that complicated doing it in to a Canadian car. Hardest part about it is you are replacing a cluster that used a printed circuit with a cluster that uses separate wires for each function. Just have to take time and sort them out but I've posted that info near the top of this thread in case someone wants to do it.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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77srx wrote:

Good morning, is there a tutorial on removing the cluster gauge from the dash?  Thank you in advance,  Ty





I don't know if someone has done that. I can give you a basic on it. I prefer to do it from the top with the dash pad off. I think you can do it from underneath but I'm fairly tall and getting under there is not a lot of fun for me!

To remove dash pad-

- Open the hood, remove cowl vent panel on the OUTSIDE of the car behind the hood. Look for a stud sticking through the firewall into the centre area under that panel you removed. It's a small stud, maybe 3/16" or so? Remove the nut from it.

-Inside the car, remove the anodized molding on each side of the windshield pillar. Then the hard part, get up behind the dash pad at each end and spread the clip that is holding the stud on the back of the dash pad. It's in the middle of part of the dash pad that hangs down at each end of the pad.

-Remove all the screws that go up into the bottom of the dash pad all the way across the pad. I am going by memory, but I think there is 6.

-Lift up the pad up slightly off the dash panel and pull it back.

-To remove the cluster, remove the clip holding the wire harness connector where it snaps in to the cluster. There's a picture of that connector near the top of this thread. It has a tab on each side.

-Remove the speedometer cable

-Remove 4 little nuts that hold the cluster in place, pull it towards the firewall, then up and out.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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Oh, and I forgot, remove the cable that operates the shift indicator needle if you are on a column shift car.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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I saw that earlier post, thanks.



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65 Catalina 2+2 421 4bbl,  Auto, White, w/red interior, Buckets w/column shift.

66 Grande Parisienne, 2dr HT, 327 4bbl, Auto.

Had the 66 since about 83 and the 65 since 88.
Both still require a lot of work.


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Thank you very much for the tutorial, much appreciated.



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.....nice job Carl getting that cluster and tach all working.

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Thanks, I was pretty tickled to see those needles move like they should!

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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