1969 Full size 396 & 427 production, how many were made?

dcneric · Poncho Master!

1969 Full size 396 & 427 production, how many were made?

66 ponchoboy · Veteran Member

Hi my General Motors historical sheet states that of all 1966 Grande Parisienne's built in Oshawa only 56 were equipped with the L-36 390hp 427.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

I can confirm that my data shows 10 Convertibles as well in 1969 with 427. I did a bit of research on this back in 2009 for an article I wrote for POCI.

I once read 14 427's in total but that is not confirmed.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

14 total 69 427's?

dcneric · Poncho Master!

14 total sounds pretty conservative. Off the top of my head there was a 4 door hardtop discussed here, there is the members green convertible and the red one in Edmonton area that Dave is looking into. There was a white one that came up and sold in one night in Winnipeg a couple years ago. Then the blue rotted out one from Ontario. I think there was talk of a 427 wagon as well. There is a guy in manitoba with 427 Grand Parisienne without its heart. I also tracked one down in west Manitoba off of Carl S's lead that went to the crushers.

That's 8 that I can think of.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

It can't be right for 69 427's total. And we have to remember there was also 2 different 427's in 69 Pontiac.

I know of a 4 dr ht near Regina, I've owned 2, a convert and a 4 dr ht.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

That 14 I read was for model #76837, still unconfirmed.

Old registry says Less than 400 with 427 which seems a lot because where are they?

And Wilf has a GP 427 2dr. hardtop in Washago.

-- Edited by 73SC on Friday 13th of October 2017 11:05:41 AM

dcneric · Poncho Master!

because where are they?

Rumor has it a lot went missing near Morris MB.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Only 3 427 cars went missing in the Morris Triangle, and one was "just" a Chevy.

73SC · A Poncho Legend!

dcneric wrote:
because where are they?

Rumor has it a lot went missing near Morris MB.

I was going to suggest the Morris factor but thought I'd give him a pass today.

Howmac · Guru

I believe that report meant "10- 14 " L36's ( 390 hp) 4 spd installed in 2+2 models for 1969

There is the Gold 2+2 L36 4 spd in Ontario , and the Black L36 AT 2+2 convertible in Winnipeg that I know of. I also know of a 4 dr Grande Parisienne L36 that was parted eventually ( I had it stored at my place for a friend)

attached is the GM letter sent regarding the Blue 2+2 (that ended up getting parted , with some parts going to restore the Gold 2+2 in Ontario). It states then that there were only 12 L36 4 spd 2+2 's in produced 1969.

So how many were AT's ?

-- Edited by Howmac on Friday 13th of October 2017 05:23:56 PM

-- Edited by Howmac on Friday 13th of October 2017 05:26:41 PM

Mondo Poncho · Addicted!

And further to Howmac's info, I have a GM Doc clearly stating 13 of the 2+2 models built in 1967 with L36 and M20. That is the total of both hardtop and convertibles. So the numbers were pretty similar for the 2+2 models in 1967 and 1969. Of course there were still L36 TH400 2+2 models in each year, as well as L36 cars of either transmission in the other passenger car models. I have copies of some documents that also lump in the corresponding Chevrolet models in the totals. I've long thought that if we gathered all the available GM Canada documents for 427 cars we would be able to break down the models into precise numbers.

I also think these rare Ponchos may be poised to increase in popularity and value, simply because they are now in a position to be much more recognized that just a few years ago. The national impala association has recently opened up its doors to the full-size Canadian Pontiac models. So as Time goes on, I can see these cars of ours being promoted alongside their more popular Chevy brethren. And if enough collectors start to realize these are the rarest 427 cars ever made, I think it bodes well for the values of these cars in the years to come. Just my thoughts.

Thinking back to that black convertible that was just advertised at $150,000, A few of us including myself were pretty sceptical of such a big number for the Canadian Pontiac. But just for conversation sake, Canadian Ponchos aside- what's the entry price for any other GM car built as a convertible with a factory installed 427? Or to take things further, a factory 427 4 speed convertible? Rarity doesn't always translate directly into high value, but these are some very nice looking cars that are mechanically identical to 427 Impalas. And our Canadian Ponchos are just that much more interesting!

-- Edited by Mondo Poncho on Friday 13th of October 2017 05:58:15 PM

dcneric · Poncho Master!

I sent this to George a few weeks back:

George,

Is there any engine break down for the full size Pontiacs? Mostly interested in the 396 and 427 numbers. See attached VVS doc you did for me a few years ago on my 69 396 2+2.

Thanks,
Eric

**

there is no meaningful interpretation as they are grouped with Chev and include all models with various options, best I can figure is around 6-700 with L66 in all full size pontiacs.

George Zapora
Vintage Vehicle Services

**

So I didn't get anything on the 427's. When I request my VVS for the 427 car I'll ask for breakdowns if available.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I am assuming he will only document the L36 427's when you ask. I'd be curious about the LS1's as well. I still have the cowl tag from my 69 LS1 Parisienne convert and I've never seen another one that I can recall.

ABC123 · Uber Guru

The 69, 2+2, that is in a dry barn near me is a 396 car.

Completely disassembled and not driven since 1976.

And yes,

it has haunted me. furious

Ever since I first saw it in 1985.

dcneric · Poncho Master!

Up date. I ordered and received mu VVS for the 69 427 2+2. See below. As per George there were 173 L36 engines installed in 69 full size.

CDN2PLS2 · Uber Guru

That's a Cool car!

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Another 427 with no posi!!!

66 ponchoboy · Veteran Member

my 1966 Grande Parisienne was bought in Melfort as well, maybe the same guy as Melfort isn't very big I think. Mine does have the 2.72 posi though.

ABC123 · Uber Guru

And the plot thickens.

I got my new Docs back yesterday.

I called the 1-800 number to ask about the number produced and did not speak of the above.

I did not get John but one of the other guys.

He insists that the doc they sent me is accurate.

There is always the possibility that prototypes built for GM executives and sold off later, do not show on the microfiche.

What model is 76867 ?

My Parisienne is 76467

Howmac · Guru

867 is for convertible ,and apparently there was only 1 made ( L36/ M20) . That leaves 9 for hardtop models ( L36 / M20 ) , and we all know Morley's hardtop is dead now . That leaves only 8 hardtops built with L36/M20 . Yours is one of 8 !

-- Edited by Howmac on Saturday 3rd of September 2022 07:48:43 AM

LT1Caddy · Poncho Master!

What happened to Morleys hardtop...?

There was a 69 Chev Imp 427 AC car that just sold here in Ontario last month...

Howmac · Guru

LT1Caddy wrote:

What happened to Morleys hardtop...?

There was a 69 Chev Imp 427 AC car that just sold here in Ontario last month...

Morleys hardtop was beyond salvaging , and was parted out quite a few years ago

LT1Caddy · Poncho Master!

Howmac wrote:
LT1Caddy wrote:

What happened to Morleys hardtop...?

There was a 69 Chev Imp 427 AC car that just sold here in Ontario last month...
Morleys hardtop was beyond salvaging , and was parted out quite a few years ago

It sat beside the garage in the grass for years. Morley had a rare 61 Chev that I saw in Alliston at a cruise night a few years back...

gparis7 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

The GM documentation for my 69 Parisienne LS1 427 says there were less than 400 full sized Pontiacs with the LS1 engine; no reference is made to the L36 engine, but if the GM documentation is correct for both engine (400 and 173) codes, there would have been less than 600 427 B body cars in 69. Not sure how that lines up with the reference to 1943 cars referred to in ABC123's docs.