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Post Info TOPIC: 65-70 Front Springs


A Poncho Legend!

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65-70 Front Springs


I am thinking when I do my engine swap I will likely need to change front springs. I have a pair here I bought from Mark (Cdnpont) and may try them. I was doing some online reading tonight and found this on a Chevy forum. Has anyone else experienced this, where the replacement has more coils than the original?

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Here is some info from the suspension refurbishment I did on my 68 Impala Convertible (307, PG, No A/C) a couple of years ago. I purchased the MOOG 6192 front springs as recommended and used the OEM lower control arms.

Once installed, the car was nose high. Also the coils did not index well in the upper spring mount when I installed them. But I willfully ignored that fact because I was overjoyed that the front end was going back together!!

Frustrated, I hit up all the forums I could to find out this was a common problem without a simple, affordable solution (coilovers or air ride would fix, but big $$$).

So, I corresponded with another Chevytalk member (mjc1) to discuss his experience with front spring replacement (he had lots of info).

I had fortunately held onto my old springs and the GM part numbers were still legible. So I did a little research to compare my OEM springs specs and the MOOG 6192 spring specs.

Below is some of the email correspondence (edited):

************************* **
Found the old springs. They have a CB code sticker on them, GM p/n 3864715.
Coil wire diameter = .630" (measured)
# of coils = 9
Free length = 17" (measured, not sure what they were new)
Spring rate = 290 lb/inch (per GM spec)

New spring (MOOG 6192) specs:
Coil wire diameter = .640 (per MOOG spec and measured)
# of coils = 9.75 (visual observation)
Free length = 17.5" (per MOOG spec and measured)
Spring rate = 300 lb/in (per MOOG spec)
************************* **

As you can see in the email excerpt above, while the springs are not identical, the only characteristic that is significantly different (in my opinion) is the number of coils: MOOG 9.75 coils vs. OEM 9 coils. I should have paid more attention to this before installing the new springs, but I figured they were replacements so they should fit!

More email correspondence:

************************* **
Good news. I cut the coils (with a 4.5" grinding wheel, not an acetylene torch!) down to 9 coils and the car sits PERFECT. And it is not too stiff! Funny thing... The coil ends on the new springs were not indexed correctly to fit the control arm and frame pockets. I knew that when I put it in but did so anyway.

So the MOOG 6192 had 9.75 turns total (OEM coils have 9 turns). Of course it was sprung in the car as if it had 10 turns. I used the old coils as a guide and cut the "extra" 3/4 turn from the new coil. Now it has the same number of turns as the old one and the ends line up with the control arm and frame.

Result: The stance is much, much better!!!
All Moog had to do was make it like the OEM coil and all would have been well. Don't know why it had that extra 3/4 turn.
************************* **

So, that was my story. My car rides fine. It is not too stiff since the coil spring rate, number of coils, free length, coil wire diameter are similar to the OEM springs.

NOTE: As stated above, I used a 4.5" grinder to cut the coils, not an acetylene torch. The grinder did not impart as much heat to the springs as the torch would have, so I did not affect the spring temper.

If MOOG made the 6192 with 9 coils instead of 9.75 coils, there would have been no problem with the installed ride height and the coils would have indexed properly in both upper spring mount and lower control arm.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door sedan 283 4 speed 43,000 miles


Poncho Master!

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I used Moog springs on my car. I never counted the coils but the car did sit higher in the front. I raised the back to level it out. I was told Moog only makes one spring now. Just heavy duty. But you should be ok with a big block.

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'68 Parisienne 2+2 Convertible Matador Red (Resale Red but not for sale).



A Poncho Legend!

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That's what I'm hoping for.

I will certainly the compare the old and the new. But first I want to try it with the 283 springs. I know I did that with my 427 automatic Grande Parisienne way back when, but it was a little bit low in the front. That car was loaded though, A/C, all the power options. It likely weighed 400 pounds more than this car does with no options.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door sedan 283 4 speed 43,000 miles


Poncho Master!

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Talk to norm at mid Canada, I know a number of years ago he said he had a place to get springs close to OE specs.

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1967 2dr Biscayne. L36, M40, G80, K05, F41. #'s.
1967 Impala convert. 283, glide. Parked in the garage since 74 and hasn't moved. Soon to be BB 4speed.

 



A Poncho Legend!

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Hmmm, I hadn't thought of him.

I'm not stuck yet but planning ahead.

I'll talk to Norm in the spring I guess. His voice mail a couple of weeks ago said he's away until spring.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door sedan 283 4 speed 43,000 miles


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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When I put the big block in my 70 2+2 rag the nose just kept dropping. I replaced the originals with a Moog spring, and it worked perfectly. I'll get you the Moog part #. I also used the same spring on my 70 Parisienne with the 454, same result.

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70 2+2 convertible
70 2+2 hardtop
70 Parisienne hardtop
72 GMC Sierra

 

 



A Poncho Legend!

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Oh good. I'd like to have a backup plan if the springs I got from Mark don't sit the right height for me.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door sedan 283 4 speed 43,000 miles


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I wish there was a princess auto (read cheap) tool where the rate could be measured with each spring.

Like a basic pressure transducer(scale)attached to a threaded rod coming through a plate. Put the spring over the scale and rod, put on the cap and bolt and tighten down a measured 1" of compression. Take the scale reading and you have the rate.

So you'd just compare the free height along with the rate and you'd have a basic understanding of what you actually have. 

 

I still have the used 350 B springs that Clint sent me way back. I think it's a good bet they'll work in the 65 for the V8.



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
6977017306_dfca361bfc_m.jpg
 


A Poncho Legend!

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cdnpont wrote:

I wish there was a princess auto (read cheap) tool where the rate could be measured with each spring.

.





I think you just figured out your next project!

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door sedan 283 4 speed 43,000 miles


Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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I used Moog 6322 front springs on both my 1970 big block cars. Worked perfectly.

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70 2+2 convertible
70 2+2 hardtop
70 Parisienne hardtop
72 GMC Sierra

 

 

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