Carl's new 427 build thread.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Carl's new 427 build thread.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

LOL, you hinting at something???!!!

I guess you could say I started this week, although indirectly....

In the mockup stages but the test stand is coming along. Of course I used a big block for the mockup!

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Ok, it's early, but you need to fully document this one Carl. And I expect some quality images. Nice stand btw.

mike667 · Poncho Master!

Looking forward to more pics!

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

cdnpont wrote:
Ok, it's early, but you need to fully document this one Carl. And I expect some quality images. Nice stand btw.

I've started buying parts for the build as I find deals on pieces. Also, I spent way too many hours agonizing over what cam. I don't want a cam that some testosterone-filled dude would put in his engine to impress everyone at the cruise night but I do want one that is at least slightly noticeable. I finally decided on an Elgin CL1066PK cam kit. At 64* overlap it should still have a decent idle. The one thing that drew me to it was the claim by many people that it is an old school cam, and has "lazy" ramps which are easy on cam lobes vs. some of the new cams.

Application Chevrolet BB V8 366 1969-1998, 396,402,454-1.7 RAR 1965-2000
Ignition Firing Order: OE (1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2)
Cam Style: Hydraulic Flat Tappet
Basic RPM Range: 2000-4800
Manufacturers Description: Noticeable idle, 2400 to 5800 rpm power range.
Intake Duration @ .050": 218
Exhaust Duration @ .050": 218
Advertised Intake Duration (@ .006"): 284
Advertised Exhaust Duration (@ .006"): 284
Intake Valve Lift with OE Rocker Ratio (1.70): .516"
Exhaust Valve Lift OE Rocker Ratio (1.70): .516"
Intake Lobe Lift: .3035"
Exhaust Lobe Lift: .3035"
Intake Valve Lift with 1.72 Rocker Ratio: .522"
Intake Valve Lift with 1.75 Rocker Ratio: .531"
Intake Valve Lift with 1.80 Rocker Ratio: .546"
Exhaust Valve Lift with 1.72 Rocker Ratio: .522"
Exhaust Valve Lift with 1.75 Rocker Ratio: .531"

Exhaust Valve Lift with 1.80 Rocker Ratio: .546"

Lobe Separation Angle: 110 Degrees
Intake Centerline: 106 Degrees
Lifters Included: No

Small Base Circle: No
Cam Gear Attachment: 3-Bolt
Valve Adjustment: Zero Lash Plus 1/2 Turn
Manufacturer: Elgin Industries
Manufacturer's Part Number: E1066

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

110 LSA. Should idle nice and develop good vacuum. Have you ever considered doing a roller cam?

On the stand: I like how you can quickly add the mount struts and rad support after the build. Clever.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I thought of a roller cam but the old school in me always wins.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Two projects on my plate right now and one is on hold waiting for parts so I decided to strip down the block in preparation of it going to the machine shop for boring. And of course, as always not everything goes as planned. The 2 plugs beside the cam that have the tiny hole in them to oil the timing chain and gears were both super tight. One came out but one finally rounded off on me. Out came the drill followed by a successful extraction with an Easy-out. Now I need to find a supplier for those plugs with the little hole drilled in them. I'm sure there's likely lots of places that sell them.

Chased all the threads in the block except for flipping it over and doing the main cap threads.

You asked for updates with pics Mark, but this is all I got for tonight!

seventy2plus2 · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Is it a 1966 427 block?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Not this one. The one in the car is. This one uses all the "normal" bottom end stuff instead of that oddball early Mark IV block that I have in the car now.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I think you could drill out a standard 1/4" NPT pug with a .032 bit. But if not, then there is this.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melling-MPP-454-1-4-Pipe-Plug-With-Oil-Relief-Hex-Head-Socket-Pipe-Plugs-Each/202843445438?epid=1560228874&hash=item2f3a6958be:g:NfIAAOSwW2hd6Ucv

$1

$37 to ship lol.

Look for Pioneer #PP-454 or Melling #MPP-454.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Carl, do plan on washing the block yourself before and after any machining?

If yes, I have a great Moroso engine brush kit that you could have nc. Big to tiny long stem brushes.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

So today I wanted to install the oil pump pickup in my new oil pump, a job I always hate. Those things always seem to fight me. I mocked it up on a bare block with the oil pan and marked where it needed to be pressed in. I had read a tip about using a split collar for putting it on. I thought why not, I'll give it a try. I'm really happy with how that works. I took the split color and had to bevel the one inner edge slightly because of the curve in the tube.

Once I did that the collar sat nice and straight on there and I put a 3/4 inch open end wrench up against it and then hammered away. After I had the tube in I was debating how to fasten it securely because I've seen more than once when an engine failed because the tube fell out. Guys say you shouldn't spot weld it for two reasons. Number one, you're welding steel to cast iron which doesn't work well. Number two, apparently it can heat up the oil pump housing and warp it. Mark showed us those nice retainers for small blocks but they don't make one for big block as far as I can find . Time to fabricate. I think it's going to work okay, the one that I built.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

cdnpont wrote:
I think you could drill out a standard 1/4" NPT pug with a .032 bit. But if not, then there is this.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Melling-MPP-454-1-4-Pipe-Plug-With-Oil-Relief-Hex-Head-Socket-Pipe-Plugs-Each/202843445438?epid=1560228874&hash=item2f3a6958be:g:NfIAAOSwW2hd6Ucv
$1
$37 to ship lol.
Look for Pioneer #PP-454 or Melling #MPP-454.

Mark, did you use/replace these when you built the engine for your 67? The more I hunt for these, the more I find that the only place they were ever used from the factory is in 454 blocks. I find it weird that 396/427 doesn't appear to have them listed.

Anyone have a 396/427 block lying around and willing to see if it has drilled plugs?

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Drill a couple yourself Carl. NPT should be dead soft. When my 454 came back from the rebore, it had two installed.

It's said they were originally found to let oil travel faster into the BB lifter galleys. Let the air out.

But to me, without a doubt, it makes sense to send a jet or two onto your new double roller chain.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Good point, I never thought to ask, I bet the machine shop will install them, you're right. I'll check when I send it out for boring.

I was thinking I might buy brass plugs and use that. Even easier to drill. .030" is a pretty tiny bit!

No double roller for me, I don't like the noise they make. Just plain old steel cam gear and regular style chain. Or are the new double rollers quieter? Years back you could hear a double roller chain long before the car pulled up to you.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I hear no sound up front with mine Carl. Silent.

But I'm just razzing you about the double roller...if they are close in price, fit the cover, have less friction and last longer, then why not?

But it's not like we'll do 90 Thousand miles either eh?

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

I'll be lucky to do 9000 miles!

Maybe I'll try one. I have a stock setup here but I also have a double roller setup.

beaumontguru · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I go with single row too, much stronger and its what GM intended.

I like the oil pump idea, i dont think they are cast IRON tho, should be cast steel. they weld just fine, just a simple tack is all thats needed. no heat buildup.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Yes, I used the wrong term when I said iron, they are cast but not cast iron.

I had a guy tack my last one when I did the 427 and he mentioned that because it's cast it technically is supposed to be welded different. I may tack this one (or get him to do it) anyway, even with the bracket but I just like the idea that it won't fall out even if the press fit comes loose and the weld would crack. Overdone likely, I know...

beaumontguru · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

Ya, i didnt know there was a bracket for a SBC, i would have put one in. you can never over do things. and peace of mind is a good thing to have when it comes to engine rebuilds.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Yes, can't be too careful on GM oil pump pickups. Not the greatest design on the V8's excluding the V8 64-67 Novas which had that long tube for the front sump. The tube had a bracket on one main cap bolt on the L79's and on the regular V8's the block was tapped and a bolt held the bracket to the block. No chance of it falling out on those engines.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

Pioneer makes this for the small blocks.

cdnpont · Canadian Poncho Superstar!

I used that part on my 327 Carl,

When I mentioned double roller timing chains, I always just thought that when replacing the timing set, it was a upgrade "to do" thing.

4SPEED427 · A Poncho Legend!

It's sure a good looking piece. I used their thinking when I built my big block piece.

Yes, double rollers have always been the way to go since I was a kid and I've had a number of them. Supposedly a lot more "accurate" once the engine has some miles on it. I may still try it but I know the last one I did in the 80's in a 327 was loud I felt.