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Post Info TOPIC: Big block conversion thread


A Poncho Legend!

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Big block conversion thread


So a site member and I were talking about him doing a big block swap on his 66 Grande Parisienne, (currently a small block). He said when the time came he would be asking me about certain things he was unsure of that may be required for the conversion. That triggered the idea to do a big block swap thread.

I will attempt to cover the swap for 65-70 models but I have only ever removed big blocks from 68-70's B bodies, never actually swapped one in where a small block was, so please help me out if I don't have facts correct, have forgotten facts or maybe just plain wasn't aware of something that would need to be covered for the swap.

I will do a separate post for each item I have in mind rather than lump it into one long post in the interest of keeping it neater and not so overwhelming.

Even though we never had the big block Mark IV engines factory installed in Canada for 1965 I will refer to them because any of the stuff mentioned that can be used on 1966 will also fit 1965 for someone doing a big block swap on a 1965. All the items used to do the big block conversion on our Canadian Pontiacs are identical to the Impala big block parts for the same years.

 





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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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ENGINE AND FRAME MOUNTS

The B bodies have 2 different styles of mounts from 65-70.  The difference between the 2 is the height as well as the length. My experience with 1966 has been that as long as you match the frame mount with the correct engine mount either one will work. By this I mean, if you currently have a small block in your car and are swapping, simply take the engine mounts off it and install them on the big block that is going into the car.

Member CDNPONT has confirmed he also did this on his 67. He removed the small block and simply used the same series of engine mount to bolt to the big block and drop it in.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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A Poncho Legend!

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EXHAUST MANIFOLDS

Two different styles of manifolds fit the 65-70 B body (excluding the 66 427 solid lifter engine which used Corvette exhaust manifolds). I am told these manifolds which have superior flow to the lower horsepower manifolds only fit 1965 and 1966 but have never verified that.

For the regular manifolds, 65-67 B bodies use one style, 68-70 use another style and they do not interchange. The 65-67 B body only units are not so easy to find, the 68-70 are much easier because they fit a number of other models also and they are used into the 70's.

 Until I can find more detailed info for B body only, this might help-

3856297 65 396 LH 325 HP
3856301 65 396 LH 425 HP Corvette
3856302 65 396 RH 425 HP Corvette
3856306 65 396 RH Passenger 325 HP
3857297 65 396 LH Passenger 325 HP
3868874 65-66 396 RH Chevelle 325, 360 & 375 HP Z-16
3869925 65 396 LH Chevelle 375 HP Z-16
3872770 66 396 RH
3880827 66-69 427 & 454 LH Corvette
3880828 66-72 427 & 454 RH Corvette 270,365,390 &425 HP with and without A.I.R. LS-5 & LS-6
3880869 70-72 454 LH Corvette 365 & 425 HP with and without A.I.R. LS-5 & LS-6
3883827 66 427 LH Passenger
3883828 66 427 RH Passenger
3883999 66 396 LH Chevelle 325, 360 & 375 HP
3884504 66-67 396 & 427 RH Passenger 325, 385 & 390 HP
3892307 66-67 396 & 427 LH Passenger 325 & 390 HP
3902401 67 396 LH Chevelle
3904399 66 396 LH
3909879 67-70 396, 427 & 454 LH Chevelle, Camaro and Nova 325, 350, 375, 425, 430 & 450 HP LS-6 COPO
3909880 67 396 RH Chevelle and Camaro 325, 350 & 375 HP
3914613 68-70 396 & 427 LH Passenger 265, 325, 335, 345, 390 & 425 HP
3916178 68-70 396, 427 & 454 RH Chevelle, Camaro, Nova and Passenger 325, 350, 375, 425, 430 & 450 HP COPO LS-5 & LS-6
3969869 70-74 454 LH Corvette 270, 365 & 390 HP with and without A.I.R. LS-5
3989310 71-72 402 & 454 RH Chevelle, Camaro, Monte Carlo and Passenger
3989343 71-72 402 & 454 LH Chevelle, Camaro, Monte Carlo and Passenger
3994045 73-75 454 LH Police



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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OIL PAN AND OIL PUMP SCREEN

This was one of the nightmares I ran into on my last swap. I was not aware that there are 2 different oil pans ( they all look the same from the outside, it's the baffle inside that is different). The early pan (Pioneer makes the only correct one, 501169) fits 1965-1966 and the later one fits 1967 and newer. If the pan is not the two-step pan like the Pioneer style it will hit the steering linkage. Dipsticks and tubes are available reproduction.

YOU MUST MATCH THE OIL PUMP SCREEN TO THE PAN. 

Unknowingly, I was trying to fit a 1966 screen into a 1969 pan. The 1966 screen is a Melling 77S1 as shown. It is too big and will not clear the baffle in the later style pan, meaning the pan will not sit up against the block.

t14.jpg

Shown below is the 1967 and later style screen which is smaller diameter.

t13.jpg

So if you buy a complete used engine that has the correct B body oil pan and use the pan and screen that come with it, you are good to go but if you are piecing it together as I was, keep this in mind.

 

 



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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STARTER

This is for the most part fairly easy. Whatever starter you have on your car now will fit on the big block as long as you are using the same flywheel or flexplate. If you are swapping to a 454 you will be getting a different flywheel or flexplate from what you were previously running  because of the 454 being externally balanced. In that case, just make sure you have a starter for the 168 tooth gear which all 454's used. If you are swapping from automatic to a manual trans at the same time you must get the correct starter with the cast iron nose with the correct special starter bolts which fit the cast iron nose only. Link to the starter bolt details-

327 396 427 Starter Bolts - Canadian Poncho (activeboard.com)

The starter brace (which is most important, don't install a starter without a brace on it) is unique to big blocks so if you are using your small block starter on the big block you will need to get the proper brace. It is still available new from GM, part number 3965588.

Use the same attaching bolts that the starter used with the small block.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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FLYWHEEL OR FLEXPLATE

If you are swapping from a small block to a 396 or 427 this is easy. Bolt on the flywheel or flexplate from your small block. If you are swapping to a 454 acquire the appropriate externally balanced flywheel/flexplate, bolt it on and use the correct starter which will fit the 168 tooth gear. If the flywheel you are using on the 396 or 427 is the small one (153 tooth), buy a clutch unit for a 327 that is 10.5" and use it. If you are using the big one (168 tooth) buy the 396/427 clutch (11") and bolt it on.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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CLUTCH PILOT BUSHING

This one is pretty important and of course you only need to do this if you are running a manual transmission.

The clutch pilot bushing you will buy depends on the year of crankshaft you are using. The link to this thread will help you determine what you need-

 

 Pilot bushing when converting from automatic to manual trans. - Canadian Poncho (activeboard.com)



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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A Poncho Legend!

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BRACKETS AND PULLEYS FOR ALTERNATOR AND POWER STEERING

65 through 68 used the short style water pump with the alternator and power steering both mounted on the driver's side of the engine. 69-70 had the long style water pump with the alternator mounted on the passenger side of the engine and the power steering mounted on the driver's side but not the same way the 65-68 pump was mounted. The pulleys are completely different also for the 2 styles of brackets and water pumps.  Reproduction parts are available for the short style pump, I've never looked to see if they are also available for the long style pump but I would assume so. Always make sure the brackets and pulleys are for a full size because in some cases Camaro Chevelle and Nova big block used different pieces.  



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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OIL PRESSURE SWITCH/ SENDER

The oil pressure switch from a small block will fit a big block but it doesn't mount in the same place. Small blocks have it beside the distributor, big blocks have it down by the oil filter. Most small blocks have a 1/8" pipe thread female port for the unit. On big blocks the port is 1/4" female pipe thread so you must by a fitting that is 1/4" male pipe thread with 1/8" female pipe thread. Also, they use an elbow to point the sending unit up because on the big blocks it comes sideways out of the block and the sending unit will interfere with exhaust or clutch linkage. 



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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MANUAL TRANS CLUTCH LINKAGE

Good old GM once again, all the clutch linkage including Z-bar, clutch linkage, bellhousing, clutch fork etc is identical between big blocks and small blocks (and even 6 cylinder cars). The only unique thing is the pivot ball inside the bellhousing for the clutch fork. It ONLY fits from 65-70 full size Canadian Pontiac or Chevrolet. Do NOT try using the ball from any other application, you will not be able to get your clutch adjusted if you do. Trust me..... The ball is still available from GM, part #3790556. If you plan to do a conversion some day you should order one now because GM won't offer it forever!



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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FUEL SYSTEM

If your car is currently a 6 cylinder, 283 or 307 it likely has a 5/16" fuel line from the tank to the pump. You can get away with it unless you are planning lots of hard, higher RPM driving in which case you may end up with the engine starving for fuel. The big blocks all had 3 /8" line the whole way from tank to carb. 

I tend to shy away from NOS fuel pumps which are still somewhat easy to find because I'm concerned they likely don't have the correct diaphragm in there to stand up to ethanol which almost everyone has now in their fuel.

If you are trying to make your big block swap look stock, you'll have a brute of a time finding a correct looking fuel pump. For 1965 and 1966 the pump looks different vs 67 and up.  All the ones out there are a nasty looking housing vs the original with one exception I've been able to find. That is the O'Reillys's pump M16210 (US auto parts store) that is the same style as original. The 67 and up pump is readily available from a number of suppliers. The difference is the way the fuel outlet threads into the pump.  See this thread-

Canadian Poncho (activeboard.com)



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



A Poncho Legend!

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DISTRIBUTOR

Once again, good old GM. Your small block distributor drops right into your big block unless you are using a tall deck truck engine with the original truck pump driveshaft (and nobody ever does that!)



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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A Poncho Legend!

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That's all I have for now, feel free to add questions, comments, part numbers etc and especially add any experience you've had with obstacles you've had to overcome with the swap if I've missed it in the notes above. I can edit your comments into the appropriate section above as required.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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excellant Carl! could you please add part numbers to manifolds, brackets, pulleys etc it would help out when looking for parts



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A Poncho Legend!

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It will be a bit before I can get at it but that's a good idea, I'll work on that upgrade.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



Canadian Poncho Superstar!

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Good thread Carl. I might add, the original 67 small block towers worked perfectly fine on my BB conversion.



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


A Poncho Legend!

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Thanks Mark for confirming that for 67.

My first ever big block swap was in 1978, a 68 Chev 427 being dropped into a 283 66 Grande Parisienne. I initially tried just pulling the 427 from the 68 and dropping it into the 66. The 68 engine mounts would not fit over the 66 small block towers. I simply removed the 283 engine mounts and bolted them to the 427, then dropped it in.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

Nov 18 to Dec 2 Black Friday UP TO 50% OFF Plus Huge Coupons
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Addicted!

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Thanks for the post Carl, great information. Im looking for a BB for my car, and really appreciate it. 



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Tom

Sherwood Park

66 Grande Parisienne 4 speed

66 Laurentian 2 door sedan, project FOR SALE 

66 Parisienne 2 door hard top, sold. 



Poncho Master!

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Here is some numbers/info from my files/conversion...

1.. 65-67 Chev and 67-68 Camaro are the same for.. P/S brackets, A/C brackets, and Alt. ( 3884506 upper, 3878264 bottom) The BB power steering pump is different then the SB, also the reservoir is rare.
2.. 66 rads, upper hose is on dr side
3.. Rad spacer is thin for BB, the wide (4") is for the SB. You need the the thin spacer to get correct spacing for water pump and fan shroud.
NOTE.. I'm not sure for Poncho (Carl?), but BB Chev, there were 3 different shrouds. SB plastic, BB plastic, and a metal shroud. (BB plastic being repod)
4.. Alt pulley 3844100 3 5/8" across ( I have a spare)
5.. water pump 1968 short, 69-72 long
6.. Starter nose 1965721 cast iron
7.. Power steering pulley 3873847 deep pulley
8.. Water pump pulley 3864480 or 3906656 (7 1/4")
9.. Crank pulley 3869978 (casting# not part#) 3 belt
** You need ALL of these parts for BB conversion to get the alignment and geometry correct for the front of the engine to coincide with the rad and shroud.
10. Exhaust manifolds 3880827 L 3880828 R for B body cars. Corvette manifolds will work, but very tight on drivers side to install oil filter 3994045 or 3969869

HTH

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Addicted!

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Great info thanks!



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Tom

Sherwood Park

66 Grande Parisienne 4 speed

66 Laurentian 2 door sedan, project FOR SALE 

66 Parisienne 2 door hard top, sold. 



A Poncho Legend!

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Tom, when you do a conversion will you be looking to make it like the regular 427 or the L72 solid lifter 425 horse 427? The reason I ask is, some of the numbers Bruce mentions in his post are for the L72 427 only, they aren't used on the 390 horse 427.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



Addicted!

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4SPEED427 wrote:

Tom, when you do a conversion will you be looking to make it like the regular 427 or the L72 solid lifter 425 horse 427? The reason I ask is, some of the numbers Bruce mentions in his post are for the L72 427 only, they aren't used on the 390 horse 427.


 Hi Carl, Thanks for the info, Im not really sure at this point just learning whats all involved. My goal is to have the stock look under the hood, no chrome, It would be cool to like a L72 if possible.



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Tom

Sherwood Park

66 Grande Parisienne 4 speed

66 Laurentian 2 door sedan, project FOR SALE 

66 Parisienne 2 door hard top, sold. 

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