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Post Info TOPIC: 65-70 Delco Power window motor. Clean and lube.


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65-70 Delco Power window motor. Clean and lube.


Bored without the cars around and with not much going on, I thought I'd finally get around to actually opening the big box containing a set of power window regulators, motors, plugs and some wires for a 69 B Body.

I'd got them from Carl last year when I'd bought the 69. And as far as I'm concerned, all convertibles MUST have power windows!!

Screenshot 2024-11-11 110829.jpg

The setup came from a 1969 Catalina 2 door HT, and a such fits most all 1969 B Bodies, sharing that same door and glass architecture. Smart move GM! I believe the front regulators are unique to that one single year in the longer door, the 4 doors cars 69-70 shared the reg. The rears work on 69-70. and of course the motors and drives have been the same more or less since the early 60's, to the late 70's when a different plug and polarity setup was introduced. The experts here will know all these details to a tee.

 

delco re.jpg

thumbnail_IMG_8608.jpg

 

 

 

Decided to test them for fun. So I cut the plug wires as far back as possible, pulled the connector plugs, reconnected one, then connected one motor wire to the battery +. Grounding the motor metal (body grounded), and keeping clear of the finger mashers, low and behold, they all worked full stroke! And pretty smoothly at that. Now considering the yard they were pulled out of and the description of how the car was sitting, it's a surprise. But I cant lie, really, they looked pretty nice. All the joints are solid and the rollers are still in good shape. I would not expect any less from Carl...

 

For many years, this type of Delco motor and plug is universally wired the same. Of course right and left side motors run mirror image to each other.

Screenshot 2024-11-12 162832.jpg

 

But now, or course we can't leave well enough alone. We need to dig further into these 65 year old mechanisms (date code Aug 68). They must need a cleaning and lube, right? 

 

Assuming this date code means 27th day, 8th month, 1968?

Interestingly, these part numbers stamped on the gear housing do not match with the CP MPC numbers. 5045585 (right side) and 5045586 (left) as seen on my motors appear to be two digits out from the CP MPC. 5587/5588 respectively.

Is it a USA/CP thing. They use the same glass.

 

thumbnail_IMG_8606.jpgthumbnail_IMG_8607.jpg

Rear elect regulator,

rear re.png

Now before going any further, most guys who have been in here know that a danger lurks in these things, a hidden danger that you might not think of. It's a spring. The regulator arm when lowered tightens a heavy clock spring. A spring that is pre loaded even when the arm is in the full up position. the spring offers assistance in lifting the heavy glass, and I suppose is intended to balance the speed of the glass up and down. Without it, the motor likely wouldn't last long.

 

Spring is small, but stout,

Screenshot 2024-11-12 170523.jpg

 

If you jump in and remove the motor from the regulator without this knowledge, it can be bad. If the arm is in the down position and you pull the motor drive bolts, the arm is likely to whip up under spring tenson. If your fingers are in the "Scissor" area, it might not be fun. the stamping are SHARP! You could actually have the spring come out rapidly, and even with the arm up there is still stored energy in the arm. I'm sure guys have some stories. When I broke down a 70 set to box, I did not know this, and was suitably startled by a "SNAP" when I pulled the first motor the arm snapped up. The next three I was sure to set the arm to the up position, and block the arm with a bolt or clamp.

 

This time with the arms set almost fully up (slightly off the end of the ring gear stop) , I simple drove in a self drilling Teck screw through the arm and into the body in a convenient spot. Worked great and the hole left will be no issue.

thumbnail_IMG_8589.jpgthumbnail_IMG_8590.jpg

 

So with the arms locked, I could now safely remove the 3- 7/16 bolts holding the motor drive to the regulator body. You simply wiggle the motor and gear free of the ring gear.

Screenshot 2024-11-12 171927.jpgScreenshot 2024-11-12 172007.jpg

 

Why all the different stamped numbers?

 thumbnail_IMG_8593.jpg

Sometimes the drive gear will come free when you pull the motor. With it out one can see the grease on the plastic Worm gear and in the drive case. Here, it's old and waxy, but I've seen way worse.

grease re.jpg

 

And here's the drive and worm gear assembly. You can see the simple cup seal skirt below. Of note, the drive gear section is encapsulated in what appears to be an elastomeric rubber. Makes sense. A small cushion to save the gear, for when the window goes full up/down to the stops.

Or when that pesky kid sticks his fingers in on the way up...

thumbnail_IMG_8595.jpg

Most of the crud on the gear is just dried and filthy grease. Not rust as it appears.

 

Little short of one running, 

 https://youtube.com/shorts/B9GBf7mnGCY?si=hxOEd7ZEMWijroxb

 

Next up;

Opening the motor case....

 

 

 

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


A Poncho Legend!

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Years ago I learned the hard way with a power regulator. It got me across the eyebrow. I had a bump about the size of a chicken egg and a gash that poured out blood for a long time. Lesson learned, that won't happen again!

Good thread Mark.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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Opening the motor,

3 bolts through the housing and into the gear case. Cut the rubber away from the bolt heads to get the socket on. They were tight.

Screenshot 2024-11-13 205627.jpg

 

Pull the gearcase off the housing. The motor worked fine, but obviously has had water in the case.

I think most of the corrosion is superficial, and is not an issue yet. Any more and it would have been. We'll see what the other 3 look like.

Screenshot 2024-11-13 205831.jpg

 

Push the brush springs off the brush housings then remove them. Push the right side brush out. It's the ground brush and is soldered to the case. Put a small screwdriver in the plate clips and unhook them.

Screenshot 2024-11-13 210001.jpg

 

Gently work the plate up and over the armature shaft bushing. Be gentle on the wire where it attaches to the stator coil. Mine is ready to break off at the arrow. It can be repaired.

Screenshot 2024-11-13 210409.jpg

 

Some of the rust left in the case. I turned the case over and tapped it lightly. A lot of rust fell out from between the coil and case.

You cannot remove the coil. It's staked to, and is a part of the case. I think it's fine though. Just.

Screenshot 2024-11-13 210500.jpg

 

This is about it. The little bushing on the end of the shaft pulls off. The rotor itself is dirty, but in good shape tested with no shorts.

Screenshot 2024-11-13 210542.jpg

 

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Interesting little find on the gearcase.

The stamped cover is removed and exposes a cast boss thats tapered inside and is open to the worm drive gear.

Was this to allow lubrication of the drive? Or was it for another purpose on a different version? I don't see this cover/boss on earlier drive motors.

ol.jpg



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Oh yuck, the motor sure looks nasty inside. Amazing that it still worked good.

I'll be curious to see if it makes a difference in the function of it when you get it all cleaned up.

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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In an attempt to keep this post alive, I need to add to the drive housing mystery.

Mistaken, the bore does not open to the worm drive gear. It passes through into the mounting bore opposite.

And to further mystify, that passage is intersected by another that runs from the motor face on the drive case. The hole sits pretty much directly above the stator brush holder. Right over the spring mounting pin.

Hmm...

Screenshot 2024-11-15 141749.jpg

Screenshot 2024-11-15 141704.jpg

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Kinda reminds me of repairing the electric motors running the hideaway headlights on the 63 vette.

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63 Parisienne sport coupe (The Big GTO), black, maroon interior, 409 4 speed; former owner of a 59 El Camino, 63 Corvette SWC, 62 Chev Bel Air SC.
1963- Pontiac top selling car in Canada

Mahone Bay, NS Still not old enough to need an automatic

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Continuing,

 

Cleaned up the Armature with worm drive gear, and the driven plastic gear. One can see how bad the commutator segments looked. I'm surprised these motors actually ran, but they did!

Screenshot 2024-11-26 220742.jpg

 

Used steel wool on the commutator, then carefully picked out the gaps between them with a fine utility knife. Then a shot a brake cleaner to flush them out.

Steel wool on the shafts.

The driven plastic gear and cup seal, used super clean, then rinsed with hot water.

The O ring on the shaft seemed fine, so I left it as is. The little steel bushing on the end of the shaft can come off when handling, so be careful when taking the assembly apart.

thumbnail_IMG_8666.jpg

 

 

There is a hollow adjustment grub screw in the gear case. It bears against the little metal shaft end bushing. Meant to set and lock the armature endplay. 

You set it with the motor running. Box end wrench on the nut, using a slotted screwdriver, add just enough tension that you hear the motor slow, then back off slightly and lock the nut.

I've heard this adjustment can be used to an extent to slow a window that moves too fast going up, but I would not want to tension it too tight. Don't think a too fast window would ever be a problem anyway would it?

Screenshot 2024-11-26 220647.jpg

Screenshot 2024-11-26 224333.jpg

 

Also, at the bottom of the motor case is a little bronze guide bushing. 

This little critical bushing can also come out with the armature shaft. Or fall out of the case when you flip it over. So be aware of it.

Screenshot 2024-11-26 213822.jpg

 

The end bushing above sits down in the shaft bushing hole, image minus the end bushing,

Screenshot 2024-11-26 213907.jpg

 

I'm using Super Lube Synthetic grease. I think it's appropriate for this. Contains PTFE, wont melt, run or harden, is waterproof and is very low friction.

Both shaft ends, case bushings, and the drive gear all the way back to the O ring (but no further) get lubed.

thumbnail_IMG_8669.jpg

 

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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So glad to see this thread Mark. I've never attempted this and Beaumontguru and I were talking about this very thing on one of our recent auto wrecking runs.

I don't see it in your pictures but is there any way to replace the male electrical terminals in the end of the motor, the ones inside the white cup where the connector snaps in?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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I haven't looked really close at the connector, but for now I'd say no, you can't replace just that.

It seems to be integral somehow to the coil inside the case. If I had one to wreck, it'd rip it apart to find out how the coil is fixed inside. It probably would take some effort, as the case is of a real heavy gauge steel.



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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I can arrange for one  that you can wreck. I have a set of regulators here for our friend and all 4 motors have one terminal rusted off. The seller was nice, he gave me the motors with the regulators and priced them as if the regulators had no motors on them when I showed him the terminals had rusted off. 

I'll pull one motor off and put it in the box of stuff that is going your way some day.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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I have a pair of motors removed. Any preference Mark, right side or left side?

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)

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I'd take a lefty carl thank you! Couldn't be better timed.

One through bolt snapped off removing it from a left. So one bolt and a left gear housing will be put to good use.



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Can you post a picture so I get the right (LOL, I mean the correct) motor?



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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thumbnail_IMG_8593 b.jpg



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Perfect, thanks. I put it in the box of stuff. 

I'm real curious about what can and can't be fixed on these motors. I have way too many little projects on the go already so as much as I'd like to do what you're doing to see what makes these motors tick, I can't make that a priority right now.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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I think the only real serviceable parts are the two brushes. A short in the stator winding or a corroded plug would probably render the motor body as scrap. A shorted rotor you could probably switch it with another, but from what I've seen in images, the worm drive gear on the shaft (and the driven nylon gear) can be of a differing ratio through the models and years. The breaker points could be removed with some effort. Could the entire board be the service part?

I've not seen any listing for service parts though. Maybe a Delco parts catalogue might show something? You'd have to harvest the best parts from any collection of motors you have. So keep them if you find em'.

The one thing to be very careful of when lifting the brush board over the shaft, is this connection point shown below. It's very delicate and will get work hardened and weak if manipulated too much. My first motor I took apart got really loose and weak there. I cut the entire wire away and re-soldered another one it it's place. One should try to straighten the curve in the wire when pulling the board up over the shaft. Try not to manipulate this point too much.

Rust in the casing looks bad, but doesn't seem to affect it's function, although too much will obviously kill it at some point. This motor had a dead moth inside go figure.

thumbnail_IMG_8680.jpg



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 
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One good tip when dissasembling,

After breaking off a motor bolt from rushing into it,

 

If you are removing the 3 through bolts from a suspected rusty motor, before loosening them (or if they are really stubborn), put the motor in a vice as shown with both the aluminum gear case, and the steel motor body captured. Tighten gently.

thumbnail_IMG_8685.jpg

 

Fit the 1/4" socket over the bolt head (after cutting away the sealing rubber), then give the socket a couple of good raps with a hammer. 

Doing so could improve your chances of getting that steel bolt out of the aluminum housing without it breaking off at the threads. The shock should help.

thumbnail_IMG_8683.jpg

 

 

 

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Pre closeup,

Gently open the breaker points, fit and do a few pull throughs with a folded over piece of fine sandpaper, then a drop of brake clean on the points while holding them open,

thumbnail_IMG_8690.jpg

 

Clean up the motor case to gearbox mounting face a bit, add some grease to the worm gear.

Not too much, you don't want a blob pushed down tthe shaft when you slide the gearcase on. Too much grease, and that bronze bushing will wipe the grease down off the shaft.  

I feel a blob could find its way down and around onto the commutator, eventually inhibiting the brush contact. So this step is important.

thumbnail_IMG_8691.jpg

 

Clean the threads on the case bolts best you can.  Add a dab of never sieze, and run them into the gearbox threads by hand. Ensure they go in with little effort,

thumbnail_IMG_8692.jpg

 

When they are 100% clean, grease the driven gear teeth. Then the cup seal, the gear case, in the center bearing hole only.

The image shown is actually WAY too much grease. May be my imagination, but when testing the motor it seemed a little draggy. I wiped most of the excess off the plastic gear face and the gear case recess and it seemed to actually pick up speed.

The nylon gear face does not run on the gearcase. The gear shaft bottoms in the case hole before the nylon makes contact. The only spot it might make contact is on the small flat seen below the worm gear opening. In theory, depending on the direction, under load, the gear gets pulled down onto the flat, the opposite direction it gets driven upward but is captured by the regulator bushing. I know in one direction the gear wants to moves up, when first testing these motors, two spat the gear right out onto the bench.

thumbnail_IMG_8694.jpg

 



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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With this final post I can say the motors are done and ready. They seem to really rip now, not surprising seeing how stiff the old lube was and the state of the commutators.

Not really challenging. One broken bolt and lead, but otherwise really simple, and actually a pleasant and satisfying small job anyone can do.

Next we try to clean and lube the regulators.

 

Cheers, Mark.

 

Compare here,

Before,

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/B9GBf7mnGCY

Screenshot 2024-12-05 102327.jpg

After,

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WayLOdZyOGI

Screenshot 2024-12-03 213423.jpg

 

One final touch and they are done.

Clean the gearcase to motor parting line and the bolt heads with Brake clean, then a wipe of Ultra Black on those spots to seal them up. 

thumbnail_IMG_8698.jpg

 

 Ugly looking, and sure, I could have done a big cosmetic cleanup on these, but really, who sees them? As long as they work well, right?

thumbnail_IMG_8699.jpg



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65 Laurentian post, 67 Grande Parisienne 4 door HT. 
 


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Thank you for being brave enough to tackle these.  Beaumontguru and myself were discussing this not that long ago and neither one of us really wanted to take a shot at it! 

Question for you. Can you notice a difference it how it works on the bench now vs before you had it apart? Visibly faster, quieter etc?



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 45,000 original miles 

1966 Grande Parisienne, 396 1 of 23 factory air cars (now converted to a "factory" 4 speed)



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They certainly seem faster, and maybe a little smoother as well. Stands to reason though with the new lube and the better internal contact.

I often wonder what the 4 in my 67 would look like. I'm sure they're due, they do get regular use which keeps them free, but the rear passenger is pretty slow these days. I'm reluctant to pull the door panels though.

I'll be restoring a power bench seat setup next for the 69, and will definately be opening that motor up for the same treatment.

 



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