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Post Info TOPIC: 65 B Body 4 speed conversion post.


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65 B Body 4 speed conversion post.


I figure I might try to document the conversion of the 65 Laurentian, from power glide to a 4 speed Muncie M20. I'll ad that Carl Stevenson has been a invaluable resource on this conversion, and has helped me out immensely. thanks Carl! And be sure to check out Dave's conversion post sticky as well.

I'll start with making an inventory of ALL the parts needed, in the attempt to make a reasonably authentic bench seat 4 speed car. Pictures and description, along with questions. If you have anything to add, links, pictures etc, please do!

I'll start inside the car...

Interior;

Shifter handle: 65-66 bench seat; Muncie reverse lockout shifter handle. Correct curve for a 65-66 bench seat car, maybe 67 as well. There are many types out there. Beware, people try to misrepresent this part all the time. I've found an original after buying what was a maybe Chevelle handle. The attachment describes different shifters console/bench. Expect to pay $150 or so for a decent shifter. All types of balls are available for it. 

32646158357_3361c0f476.jpg33903090198_7e0a880a89.jpg

 

Boot; The correct 65 boot is not available aftermarket. If you find one NOS, expect to pay at least $300 USD for it. I've chosen this one shown, supplied by Hubbard's Impala. I don't know what it would be for, but it will have to do as a reasonable facsimile. $50. The correct boot is shown at bottom with a image of an original 65 setup. Kind of square on the bottom, with a section of rounded pleats on top. I think this was a 1965 only part. So it's super rare. Perhaps somebody has more knowledge about these? Chime in please!

46863434185_d637070ecc.jpgcorrect.JPG

32836800437_4fe3387eb6.jpg

Boot ring: secures the boot. I've bought 2. One I'll use as the opening ring when I attempt to fabricate a shifter hump.$15 ea.

47779786141_273c99da97.jpg

Carpet Ring; Trims the edge of the carpet where the boot comes through. Has a 3/4" slit around the edge. Supplied by Stevenson Inc. Should fit the boot I'm getting. Flexible plastic/rubber. Can be painted to match the interior trimcolour. $50

Steel Ring, Boot and Carpet ring all stacked together. Will work just fine! Turns out the boot sold through Hubbard's as a 65 to 66 bench, is actually a nice SoffSeal part (which is good), listed for a 64. SoffSeal 2109 or Hubbard's 6466SBUM.

 

32836300977_5efc6de0d6.jpg32899867867_0c72a6f653.jpg

46927567535_b780f0708b.jpg

 

Carpet; A high quality floor shift carpet is available from NOS. I'll buy it before I make the hump, just to be sure. As Carl states below, avoid the actual 4 speed carpet for a 65-66, the hump molded in is far too big for those years.

link to previous discussions;

https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t64360126/1969-whats-special-about-four-speed-carpet/

https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/291216/fromsearch/1/hl/4/tp/2/

 

47728155792_6c9d0cd38c.jpg

Tunnel shifter hump; The one shown is available, but according to those who have done it, it's a piece of crap. $80!!. Sorry, I'm going to attempt to make my own.

Link to some discussion on the "Hump";

https://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/206309/tp/2/

crap.JPG

Steering Column; Of course you'll need a column without a shift lever. Here's a 65-66 floor shift column. Good supply, fairly easy to find. Easy to rebuild, all the parts are available. Bolts right in place of the column shift unit. Same wiring.

46710081945_0c28c7bf3e.jpg

Clutch and brake pedals; Can be bought aftermarket, never heard any feedback on the non OEM offshore parts, but I suspect they are not a robust as the originals. You can buy the pedals separate or as an entire 4 speed "Clutch" conversion. I bought a pair of good originals with rods and the Z bar. All the pedal bushings, the shaft and the clip are all available new. So you can restore any old set. I think 65-70 is interchangeable across, as in all will likely work, but as witnessed by Dave's great image, they differ in size, shape and the stop position. 65-66, 67-68, 69 along with 70, I assume.

47780258771_ccc5861131.jpg

 

 

2v2EPmuyFxcYCst.jpg

Pedal Pads: Deluxe or standard pads are available reproduction and are cheap. I've chosen the standard pads. The base cars for the most part got this style I think? Did a base power brake car get the pad with "power brakes" on it?

To note, the CPP branded pads received are of the cheap stinky offshore rubber. Even a little slippery! A scuff will probably make them usable.

46991190414_9fd98a3e4c.jpg32899867777_f33ed97be1.jpg



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
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minor pedal differences '65-'70...

2v2EPmuyFxcYCst.jpg



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This thread will make me want a 68 Grande 4 speed (or 5 spd). Thanks for making a note where parts cross over to 68's.

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Excellent!



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
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This will be very helpful to me if I decide to convert my 68 Bel Air to a 4 speed.  Fortunately I have everything described except the hump and the Muncie shifter. But I do have a Hurst shifter that fits this application. I will watch this one closely. Thanks for posting it. 



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62 Catalina 2 dr post project

69 Parisienne 2 dr ht 427

66 Caprice 2 dr ht 396

68 Bel Air 2 dr sedan BB project

68 Caprice 2 dr ht 396

68 Impala SS427 convt

69 Kingswood Wagon 396

73 Biscayne Sedan 350 19K miles

73 Camaro 307 4 spd CA car

11 Mercedes Benz C63 AMG

 



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One word of advice.

Well, a few words.... For a 65-67 bench seat conversion, when you order the carpet, do NOT order a 4 speed carpet. The manufacturers have this totally wrong and refuse to admit it. They mold the 4 speed carpet with the 68-69 hump which is TOTALLY wrong. A regular bench seat column shift carpet is perfect. I'll look for the link where I posted on this way back when I was working on the 4 speed conversion in my black 66 Grande Parisienne that Tom bought.



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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https://canadianponcho.activeboard.com/t64360126/1969-whats-special-about-four-speed-carpet/



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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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4SPEED427 wrote:

One word of advice.

Well, a few words.... For a 65-67 bench seat conversion, when you order the carpet, do NOT order a 4 speed carpet. The manufacturers have this totally wrong and refuse to admit it. They mold the 4 speed carpet with the 68-69 hump which it TOTALLY wrong. A regular bench seat column shift carpet is perfect. I'll look for the link where I posted on this way back when I was working on the 4 speed conversion in my black 66 Grande Parisienne that Tom bought.


 This is good to know! Thanks!



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
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I have spread the word on this issue as much as I could, including over at Chevytalk where one or two other guys have had the same issue. I don't understand why the manufacturers won't admit there is a problem and the carpet they sell for 65-67 4 speed cars is WAY wrong...

At the end this thread gets totally derailed but lots of info at the start at least---

www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showtopic.php%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%7Cspeed%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%5C%7Ccarpet/tp/1/

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1966 Strato Chief 2 door, 427 4 speed, 43,000 original miles


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I used the regular ( non 4 psd ) carpet on my 65 Biscayne post, and it fine over the factory 4spd hump. The 65 has is a very low profile hump not as pronounced as the 68 /69 as shown in pics . 



-- Edited by Howmac on Sunday 5th of May 2019 04:59:03 PM

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 68 / 69  4 spd B bodies

 



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In adding to this dormant post, I did a little work and mockup on the Muncie shifter. Cleaned it all up, and began to assemble it on the bench in an effort to see how it actually works.

Put the case together with no guts, but with the sidecover combs, spring and shifter forks in place. Figured out the rod configuration from a shop manual illustration. Cleaned up the rod threads.

Shifter levers were put in the neutral position, along with the case levers. Interestingly, this shifter has no neutral square "slot" so to speak of, just basically a half moon shaped slot. No place to fit a neutral gauge feeler. So it's basically find the position by eye while adjusting the rods. I'd made the red lines with the levers out of the case while observing the square slot being lined up all the way across. Maybe this half moon is a clue to as what model this unit came from. The 65 manual shows a slot. So any ideas? 

I'd bought two different "shims" as suggested by Carl Stevenson, to maybe take up some of the slack you might find in an old worn shifter. I've since found out that the "Shim" is actually more than that, it really is a protection gate inside the shifter to prevent a false reverse moving 1st to second. While the shifter lever has a lockout pin, still, it makes sense to have this extra square edged gate. It actually sits fixed in the body and divides the reverse/1st and 2nd levers. One shim was .073 (stock thickness), and the other is .099. Looks like the .099 will fit. Will need a trim (on the score lines on the black), as the replacements are actually Corvette parts. Identical everywhere but the ends. Another great solution from Carl, I don't think a identical replacement is available. 

Picture shows the "shim" in place, red arrow, yellow is the half moon slot for neutral. .099 shim shown how it would sit inside the cluster. The square slot is the gate. The lines on the black are the trim lines.

shi.jpggate.jpg

Mocked up, clamped to the bench.

mock.jpg

So even with the stock shim, as mocked up, it rows and clicks through and across all the gears with ease. Mind you, it's a mockup without actual gears, but it still feels very good. Sweet! I can only imagine how nice it will be sitting on a bench while rowing! I think fitting the .099 shim will even make it sharper. Finding a nice even neutral across all the levers at the same time to start is the trick. I'll do one final neutral gate test before it goes in the car

I always love learning about something I knew zero about! Next, I'll put the M20 together. Cheers.

 



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67' Grande Parisienne. Ex Ottawa USSR Embassy car, 67- 68.
6977017306_dfca361bfc_m.jpg
 


A Poncho Legend!

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Mark, a 5/16" bolt will get those gates lined up real nice once you have the rods installed. I take no credit for helping you, I'm just passing along info that others have shared with me in the past.

 

20191008_192541[1].jpg



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